Model Aircraft at 3000ft in Class D airspace.
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Model Aircraft at 3000ft in Class D airspace.
I have come a cross a chap who flies a remote controlled powered glider (large scale model) in airspace which I believe is Class D. According to him he flies at up to 3000ft and as he is flying a model aircraft has no requirement to advise ATC of his activities. Is this correct? The actual location is Kelsall, 5 miles east of Chester (UK).as far as I am aware this area is used by aircraft on approach to Liverpool, Hawarden and occasionally Manchester. My understanding is that in this area nothing is allowed above 1200ft without clearance and even then should at least be talking to Hawarden or Liverpool radar (traffic information service). Ok that’s perhaps difficult if the pilot is ground based but I suspect this gentlemen should at least be calling Hawarden by telephone to advise them of his activities??
Any professionals care to comment or am I over reacting?
Any professionals care to comment or am I over reacting?
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Cap658
From CAP658 there are two relevant elements of the ANO that would seem to apply:
Article 74 that applies to all model aircraft and states that “A person shall not recklessly or negligently cause or permit an aircraft to endanger any person or property.”
Article 98 that applies only to models of 7kg or more that has comments such as don't fly in Class A, C, D or E airspace unless the permission of the appropriate air traffic control unit has been obtained.
I guess unless the glider is > 7kg there would need to be a subjective judgement on Article 74.
Article 74 that applies to all model aircraft and states that “A person shall not recklessly or negligently cause or permit an aircraft to endanger any person or property.”
Article 98 that applies only to models of 7kg or more that has comments such as don't fly in Class A, C, D or E airspace unless the permission of the appropriate air traffic control unit has been obtained.
I guess unless the glider is > 7kg there would need to be a subjective judgement on Article 74.
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He needs to read the ANO
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2005/20051970.htm
Articles 74 97 and 98 apply
Another reference
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP658.PDF
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2005/20051970.htm
Articles 74 97 and 98 apply
Another reference
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP658.PDF
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I have just discovered that the aircraft in question is a Cularis electric glider and from the published material should be about 1.68kg before you add a small camera for aerial photography but still well under the 7kg limit I am sure.
Wingspan 102.75 inches.
Length 49.6 inches.
Quite an innovative setup which has produced an interesting collection of photos of the area.
Many thanks for the clarification.
Last edited by ISO100; 26th Sep 2007 at 19:17. Reason: Add Thanks!
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I'm a model flyer. Please write or email the British Model Flying Association with as many details as possible.
http://www.bmfa.org/
Not all model flyers are members of the BMFA but the BMFA has affiliated clubs in most areas areas and I'm pretty sure they will have one at Chester.
Normally if a problem like this arrises a warning would be sent to clubs in the area reminding them of the rules and asking them to keep an eye out for any non-members flying dangerously. Someone will know him and at the very least some peer pressure can be applied to mend his ways.
It's very hard to know how high your plane is without onboard monitoring. Altimeters are available but are rarely fitted to planes - althought perhaps more common on planes used for aerial photography as it's nice to know what height the photo was taken from. Some types simply log the height for later readback, others have speech synthysis and transmit height information back down to the ground in real time.
Without one of those it's impossible really to tell with any accuracy how high your model is. Most model flyers tend to over estimate - it could well be he never goes near 3000 ft or even 1000ft. If he has got an altimeter on board and he's correct about it being 3000 ft then he needs putting straight. No model flyer wants to cause an incident.
The size of the plane isn't really the issue here. Even if it weighs grams you don't fly in a dangerous place or manner.
http://www.bmfa.org/
Not all model flyers are members of the BMFA but the BMFA has affiliated clubs in most areas areas and I'm pretty sure they will have one at Chester.
Normally if a problem like this arrises a warning would be sent to clubs in the area reminding them of the rules and asking them to keep an eye out for any non-members flying dangerously. Someone will know him and at the very least some peer pressure can be applied to mend his ways.
It's very hard to know how high your plane is without onboard monitoring. Altimeters are available but are rarely fitted to planes - althought perhaps more common on planes used for aerial photography as it's nice to know what height the photo was taken from. Some types simply log the height for later readback, others have speech synthysis and transmit height information back down to the ground in real time.
Without one of those it's impossible really to tell with any accuracy how high your model is. Most model flyers tend to over estimate - it could well be he never goes near 3000 ft or even 1000ft. If he has got an altimeter on board and he's correct about it being 3000 ft then he needs putting straight. No model flyer wants to cause an incident.
The size of the plane isn't really the issue here. Even if it weighs grams you don't fly in a dangerous place or manner.
Last edited by cwatters; 30th Sep 2007 at 20:57.
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He must have fantastic eyesight to see a 2.5M glider at 1KM.That's before you try and keep it under control.Also getting towards the edge of radio range.I think it will be a lot less than the stated height.He doesn't do fishing as well?
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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=e4Jb8Tpq7Eo
Turn your sound on to hear the altimeter audio readout. It goes to 2000ft.
Turn your sound on to hear the altimeter audio readout. It goes to 2000ft.
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According to him he has equipment that gives an accurate height reading to within a few feet. Whether this works on barometric pressure or by other means I am not sure. The inference was that he is aware of the altitude while the aircraft is in flight.
He also makes these claims on his web site but I am not ging to post a link here.
He also makes these claims on his web site but I am not ging to post a link here.
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Yeah,
Multiplex kit( about £110 in most good toy shops),brushless motor and speed controller,3 cell lipo battery,Graupner/JR MC radio gear.All standard stuff.
The 2000ft exploit looks like a one off,as he had a vario with a tx link to hear the readout.
Maybe he needs buy a map to see where the CAS is,not to ruffle too many feathers.Trying to fly a model over 1000ft is tricky,because of the difficulty in judging pitch.His video shows that after 1000ft.As soon as 2000ft came up he cut the power very quickly.Probably couldn't see it any more.
Multiplex kit( about £110 in most good toy shops),brushless motor and speed controller,3 cell lipo battery,Graupner/JR MC radio gear.All standard stuff.
The 2000ft exploit looks like a one off,as he had a vario with a tx link to hear the readout.Maybe he needs buy a map to see where the CAS is,not to ruffle too many feathers.Trying to fly a model over 1000ft is tricky,because of the difficulty in judging pitch.His video shows that after 1000ft.As soon as 2000ft came up he cut the power very quickly.Probably couldn't see it any more.
Last edited by throw a dyce; 3rd Oct 2007 at 07:59.
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Yeah,
Multiplex kit( about £110 in most good toy shops),brushless motor and speed controller,3 cell lipo battery,Graupner/JR MC radio gear.All standard stuff.The 2000ft exploit looks like a one off,as he had a vario with a tx link to hear the readout.
Maybe he needs buy a map to see where the CAS is,not to ruffle too many feathers.Trying to fly a model over 1000ft is tricky,because of the difficulty in judging pitch.His video shows that after 1000ft.As soon as 2000ft came up he cut the power very quickly.Probably couldn't see it any more.
Multiplex kit( about £110 in most good toy shops),brushless motor and speed controller,3 cell lipo battery,Graupner/JR MC radio gear.All standard stuff.
The 2000ft exploit looks like a one off,as he had a vario with a tx link to hear the readout.Maybe he needs buy a map to see where the CAS is,not to ruffle too many feathers.Trying to fly a model over 1000ft is tricky,because of the difficulty in judging pitch.His video shows that after 1000ft.As soon as 2000ft came up he cut the power very quickly.Probably couldn't see it any more.
Judging from the response people do not seem to see this as a real issue, which is reassuring perhaps.
Thanks to all who responded.
