South Africa

[j bomb]

First time poster, long time reader.

I haven't heard much about South Africa's search for ATC's lately. They have to be looking for more experienced controllers considering South Africans seem to be leaving in bunches to everywhere else around the world. I know it's hard to get an honest straight answer about salaries on this site, but what are the chances of getting a spot in Cape Town rather than Jo'berg in sunny SA. That is, if one could get hired by ATNS.

I know a lot of people will respond with why would you want to go to SA right now anyway. With another winter on the way, sometimes I wonder how much I would give up in money or safety to have the sun and sand around most of the year.

I look forward to the responses I will get from this post.

Curious, in the cold north.

[wadi racer]

Hi Jbomb

I believe that ATNS are looking for ATC all over the country but they will most likley offer you Jhb. If you are insestent then Cape town may be forthcoming but once again not 100% sure on that.

While we are on the subject, what are the chances of being employed with Navcan at the moment?
Last I heard was that they were not employing foreign/ previously experienced controllers

[j bomb]

Thanks Wadi Racer,

I just went on the navcanada website and it says the experienced controller hiring process is "currently under review, check back in fall 2007." It also says you must be legally able to work in Canada before you will be considered. I don't think getting a work permit would be too much of a hassle, besides of course, the waiting time to get the appropriate paperwork.

Certain centres, are quite understaffed at the moment, so I would be surprised if navcanada didn't restart the experienced controller program.

j bomb

[126,7]

They just employed a German fellow in CPT a few months ago. So its worth a try.
As far as salaries go:
Depending on yr years of experience you could earn up to R410K a year. Add to that the station allowance of R90K per annum if you work the Johannesburg sectors. They work the most traffic and get paid the most too.

[ASD]

Cape Town is short of controllers in both the Area and Tower/Approach pool.

Johannesburg has even a higher staff shortage though and if ATNS do hire foreign controllers, I would imagine them to be placed in Johannesburg first..... but its worth a try to ask for Cape Town.

Just lost more controllers to AUS and middle east, also hear rumours that a few more are on the cards to leave.

As long as you happy with the pay, crime and everything else u heard, cape town not a bad place to work.

[Married a Canadian]

Wadi

Experienced controller program on hold for now...even though it says check back fall 2007 on the website.

Probably best to check again early next year as there won't be much movement over the fall/winter months.

[wadi racer]

Thanks Married a Canadian and Jbomb,

They have all my details and I drop them an email once every few month but as of yet nothing.................

Holding thumbs.......I have been told that if I get landed immigration status they would reconsider however this is about a 3 year process

[Track Coastal]

With another winter on the way, sometimes I wonder how much I would give up in money or safety to have the sun and sand around most of the year.

...try Queensland, Australia

[j bomb]

I tried Australia last year in the world wide hiring they did last year, but they wanted people with eurocat experience.

Wadi Racer are you sure it takes 3 years to get paperwork in order. My wife is from South Africa and it took just under 1 year. A good friend came here from France a couple of years ago and he too waited under 1 year for the appropriate paper work.

[kiloquebec]

I recently read an ad in Flight magazine that ATNS was hiring, and a copy of the ad is on the ATNS website, the ad said they are offering 5 year contracts.

If there are any ATNS controllers out there, here are my questions:

Why are so many controllers leaving RSA?
What is the total pay for an area controller, before and after taxes.
Are there any other perks such as flight passes etc.?
Is there any overtime offered?
What is the cost of living?
Would my wife be allowed to work? (I don't know how visas work in SA)
Have any foreign controllers been hired?

I'm a Canadian who grew up in Maputo - so I've been to South Africa many times (we came monthly for groceries during the war). But I haven't spent much time there lately - I was in Nelspruit for a week in 2005 - but I haven't been following things such as cost of living, housing etc.

Thanks.

[wadi racer]

J B

I have not officially started the paper work but have been advised by the companies that do the immigration process, that it would take about 3 years to obtain landed immigration status.

[BlueSkye]

KQ, I won't be able to answer your paperwork questions but I will try and answer some of the rest.

People leaving: People leave ATNS for reasons ranging from crime to lack of recognition. The biggest reason is for money which I will explain below.

Pay: Seeing that you will probably be employed on contract basis there will not be deductions for pension on your pay. How the tax system work for non-citizens/residents is also something I can not answer. I would venture a guess and say around R25 000 after tax.

Perks: Covered parking.

Overtime: Involved formula to calculate. Depends on basic salary. Time and a half for Sundays and 2X for public holidays.

Livingcost: In SA anybody can buy a house. If this is not your thing renting is a good "cheap" option. Interest rates are high and there is some cheap rentals out there to be had. For around R7k/m you can rent a very nice place. Cars are hideously expensive, so get something cheap but reliable. Depending on your taste, food is not to expensive. 2L of milk @ R15. Pack o' fags @ R15. Petrol @ R7/l. Beer @ who cares, its still cheap. Medical cover and insurance can put a bit of a dent in your pocket as you live in a high risk society. All in all you wont be able to live a champagne lifestyle and definately won't be able to send money abroad, but then your circumstances might be different.

Wife: No clue.

Foreigners: Loads of them. Serbs, Croats, Swiss, German, Danes, Canucks, even people from the East Rand, the lot. So no problem there. ATNS is a para-statal so they must have some friends in Gov who help with these things.

People leave ATNS because of the money. The cost of living is not that high (my opinion) but the income in the end does not afford you the financial security that you want. If you have two incomes the picture will obviously be different. My advice would be to get some hard numbers from them first, post it here and then people can disect it for you. But whatever you get from ATNS, get it in writing!!!! They will renege on there word at the drop of hat.

[126,7]

ATNS doesn't seem to accept any foreign licenses. Not even Eurocontrol. All new comers have to do a rating test, successful completion of which gives the applicant a chance at an interview. The rating test is done in your own time, in other words you have to use your vacation time to do it and it takes about 2-3 weeks. This includes a radar rating, a procedural rating and 5 theory exams.

Then they say that they'll pay R50K before tax toward your relocation expenses. Take off 20-30% for tax, am not really sure how much tax is deducted. Suppose you have to pay the rest if you want your wife and kids to join you there.

[ollie_a]

ATNS is recruiting internationally again, this time for controllers and instructors: see http://www.atns.co.za/vacancy/vacancy.pdf. No salary mentioned but they seem to want anyone they can get.

[Ernie Sparks]

Blue Skye, R7 per litre of gas I wish. You will see in a few weeks. The latest increase next week is going to be between 70 and 80cents per litre, making it about R10.50 per litre, and diesel will be over R12 Got to love it.

[Slo Moe]

A bit off topic:

In our country the gasoline has also taken a hike in prices.

Well so took I a hike from the seat of my car towards racing
with my bicycle. And mind you. It is fun! It is safe!
Ladies and gentlemen strap your helmets!

Erbeto Ahzematakom

[ASD]

In Blue Skye's defence that post was made in 2007!

Again - why do ATNS need international controllers? - because ALOT of their local controllers are busy leaving (or planning to leave in the very near future). Last salary negotiations didnt help much either

Not a bad company to work for but pay is much better elsewhere... so think twice!

[Skyjuggler]

2007:)

Ha HA I made the same mistake. Was reading BlueSky's post then did a double take when I got to Petrol at R7 a litre. Then again, I think at R10 and some change now it's the cheapest it's ever going to be, so be merry

[hermy1]

ATNS recruiting

i agree theytaking anyone that passes the assesment
i just saw now in my mailbox an advert for 3 instructors at the college
good company to work for and as salaries go for in SA not bad
when compared to other currencies it is measly
but then living here is cheaper too

[makeapullup]

good company to work for