Solent CTA
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Solent CTA
Guys I'm after a little airmanship advice as a new pilot.
I recently flew into Bournemouth for the first time; approaching from the East, and flew under the Solent CTA abeam the Isle of Wight both inbound and outbound.
On both occasions I bothered myself to speak to Solent Approach, on the way home being handed over to them by Bournemouth; but they weren't interested in talking to me.
I was told they would call me back when they could, they didn't, but they didn't sound particularly busy either so in the end I gave up and QSY'd them.
They have a reputation for being unhelpful, and they lived up to it in my case. Should I bother to talk to them in future?
And if they're so unhelpful, why should I help them by squaking mode C whilst under their airspace?
Thanks!
I recently flew into Bournemouth for the first time; approaching from the East, and flew under the Solent CTA abeam the Isle of Wight both inbound and outbound.
On both occasions I bothered myself to speak to Solent Approach, on the way home being handed over to them by Bournemouth; but they weren't interested in talking to me.
I was told they would call me back when they could, they didn't, but they didn't sound particularly busy either so in the end I gave up and QSY'd them.
They have a reputation for being unhelpful, and they lived up to it in my case. Should I bother to talk to them in future?
And if they're so unhelpful, why should I help them by squaking mode C whilst under their airspace?
Thanks!
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And if they're so unhelpful, why should I help them by squaking mode C whilst under their airspace?
It's all encompassed in one word, airmanship.
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stevieb1.. You may be a new PPL but you're starting to sound like a number of private pilots I've experienced.
I can't believe that they go out of their way to be unhelpful because in ATC it's far easier to say "yes". If you are outside of their airspace they may not wish to talk to you because they are busy with other things. Does that not sound reasonable?
Why not telephone Solent and ask if you can sit in with them for a couple of hours to learn about their problems? You might learn something yourself.
I can't believe that they go out of their way to be unhelpful because in ATC it's far easier to say "yes". If you are outside of their airspace they may not wish to talk to you because they are busy with other things. Does that not sound reasonable?
Why not telephone Solent and ask if you can sit in with them for a couple of hours to learn about their problems? You might learn something yourself.
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To be fair, I'm the first to admit I'm inexperienced and therefore know nothing! That's why I'm asking.
In my short time I've spoken to E Mids when landing and transiting, and Stansted and Luton when nearby, plus a few busy class D airports on the Greek Islands.
I've never felt moved to ask before, but the two guys at Solent were just particularly curt, and their tone of voice suggested they were telling me to p*ss off and it irritated me! I have no problems with my RT. Maybe I'm just being paranoid!
In the meantime I would like to go along and see what an approach controller does. Would something like that be possible at say Stansted?
Cheers
In my short time I've spoken to E Mids when landing and transiting, and Stansted and Luton when nearby, plus a few busy class D airports on the Greek Islands.
I've never felt moved to ask before, but the two guys at Solent were just particularly curt, and their tone of voice suggested they were telling me to p*ss off and it irritated me! I have no problems with my RT. Maybe I'm just being paranoid!
In the meantime I would like to go along and see what an approach controller does. Would something like that be possible at say Stansted?
Cheers
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Stevieb1,
The Stansted Approach function along with Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton and London City is performed at The London Terminal Control Centre at West Drayton just to the north of Heathrow airport. I think visits are possible and I'm sure someone knows who to contact etc??
The Stansted Approach function along with Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton and London City is performed at The London Terminal Control Centre at West Drayton just to the north of Heathrow airport. I think visits are possible and I'm sure someone knows who to contact etc??
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Stevieb1. At the risk of showing your inexperience, at least you asked. Whilst you made an assumption that just because you couldn't hear a lot on the RT Solent were not busy, however let's not make the assumption that stevieb1 gained his PPL at an aerodrome in for e.g a busy class D environment. My suggestion would be, that as you were aware that you were below the CTA you could, should you wish, monitor their frequency. If in the event you can hear them calling traffic to other A/C that you believe to be you, you could make a quick call to them with your details. They then could make a decision as to how much of a service they felt able to provide(subject workload). If, as Bournemouth did, instruct you to contact another agency, you can make the choice as to whether you will, or if not, just inform them that you wish to contact someone else (providing of course you are remaining outside their airspace) Selecting mode C will help them to ensure that you are indeed transiting below their airspace and not give them heart failure!! By all means visit an ATC unit near to you. It's good for all of us to see both sides. It also means we can mould you just the way we like you!!!!
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stevieb1, it's difficult to know whom (if anybody) to talk to in the corridor under the Solent CTA between Stoney Cross and the IOW.
Below 2000', you are under the Solent CTA and laterally outside the Bournemouth CTR. However, Bournemouth has the LARS so I think on balance EGHH APP on 119.475 is the more appropriate unit to contact. If the frequency is busy, a good second best would be to maintain a listening watch on that frequency, while squawking A7000 Mode C - you really can't do much else.
JD
Below 2000', you are under the Solent CTA and laterally outside the Bournemouth CTR. However, Bournemouth has the LARS so I think on balance EGHH APP on 119.475 is the more appropriate unit to contact. If the frequency is busy, a good second best would be to maintain a listening watch on that frequency, while squawking A7000 Mode C - you really can't do much else.
JD
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As someone who uses Solent regularly (EGTR-EGJA) I have to say they generally give a great service. 95% of the time I get a transit and they seem to cope with busy commercial traffic and GA very well.
Frankly any pilot who deliberately chooses not to use their transponder out of ATC spite doesn't deserve the honour of a licence and should do us all a favour and stay on the ground !
LF
Frankly any pilot who deliberately chooses not to use their transponder out of ATC spite doesn't deserve the honour of a licence and should do us all a favour and stay on the ground !
LF
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Late Final
I have done nothing other than what I believe to be the textbook airmanship solution, ie squawk Charlie, stay under the CTA, and try to contact them. The fact that I bother my a*se to ask further on here is because I do actually care what the right thing to do is. And also that I had too much time on my hands yesterday!
The question about mode C was asked, with a little irony, to illicit a response; that's all.
Thanks for your pontifications on my worthiness to hold a licence anyway pal. I'll keep that in mind.
I have done nothing other than what I believe to be the textbook airmanship solution, ie squawk Charlie, stay under the CTA, and try to contact them. The fact that I bother my a*se to ask further on here is because I do actually care what the right thing to do is. And also that I had too much time on my hands yesterday!
The question about mode C was asked, with a little irony, to illicit a response; that's all.
Thanks for your pontifications on my worthiness to hold a licence anyway pal. I'll keep that in mind.
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With great respect, IMHO the person to ask these questions of is your flying instructor.
When I was current I was never much in favour of clockwork mice charging about with Mode C showing because it was unverified and I might end up taking unneccessary action. However, I do appreciate that others have different opinions - maybe even the "book" tells you to do it nowadays.
When I was current I was never much in favour of clockwork mice charging about with Mode C showing because it was unverified and I might end up taking unneccessary action. However, I do appreciate that others have different opinions - maybe even the "book" tells you to do it nowadays.
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HD, far better to take the occasional unnecessary bit of avoiding action than to have something far worse because Mode C was switched off so no safety nets to stop worst case scenario.
Don't take this the wrong way but you've been gone a while now and things have moved on. For example, leaving aside the ACAS benefits, there's new kit being introduced early next year that will warn of infringements automatically but it relies on both Mode A and C (or S) being switched on to work to maximum benefit. So, to any pilots reading, if you have A and C (or S) please switch them on at all times unless specifically requested by ATC to switch them off.
Don't take this the wrong way but you've been gone a while now and things have moved on. For example, leaving aside the ACAS benefits, there's new kit being introduced early next year that will warn of infringements automatically but it relies on both Mode A and C (or S) being switched on to work to maximum benefit. So, to any pilots reading, if you have A and C (or S) please switch them on at all times unless specifically requested by ATC to switch them off.
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Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR
When I was current I was never much in favour of clockwork mice charging about with Mode C showing because it was unverified and I might end up taking unneccessary action. However, I do appreciate that others have different opinions - maybe even the "book" tells you to do it nowadays.
ENR 1.6.2 — SSR OPERATING PROCEDURES
1 General
1.2 In airspace where the operation of transponders is not mandatory, pilots of suitably equipped aircraft should comply with paragraph 2.2.2.
...
2.2 Mode A Conspicuity Code
2.2.1 When operating at and above FL 100 pilots shall select Mode A code 7000 and Mode C except:
(a) When receiving a service from an ATS Unit or Air Surveillance and Control System Unit which requires a different setting;
(b) when circumstances require the use of one of the Special Purpose Mode A codes or one of the other specific Mode A conspicuity codes assigned in accordance with the UK SSR Code Assignment Plan as detailed in the table at ENR 1-6-2-4 to ENR 1-6-2-8.
2.2.2 When operating below FL 100 pilots should select Mode A code 7000 and Mode C except as above.
So, it would seem, if we've got it, we should (but NOT must) use it ... although I do think your point about it not necessarily being verified is very pertinent.1 General
1.2 In airspace where the operation of transponders is not mandatory, pilots of suitably equipped aircraft should comply with paragraph 2.2.2.
...
2.2 Mode A Conspicuity Code
2.2.1 When operating at and above FL 100 pilots shall select Mode A code 7000 and Mode C except:
(a) When receiving a service from an ATS Unit or Air Surveillance and Control System Unit which requires a different setting;
(b) when circumstances require the use of one of the Special Purpose Mode A codes or one of the other specific Mode A conspicuity codes assigned in accordance with the UK SSR Code Assignment Plan as detailed in the table at ENR 1-6-2-4 to ENR 1-6-2-8.
2.2.2 When operating below FL 100 pilots should select Mode A code 7000 and Mode C except as above.
JD
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Impressions of Solent ATC?
Hey guys,
I'd been thinking of starting a thread for a while, but seeing as this one already exists I may as well tag it on the end of here... sorry if that's hijacking!
I was just wondering what people's impressions of Solent Radar are from a flying perspective, both VFR round or through the CTA, and IFR in/out of Southampton and Bournemouth.
I know the unit had a reputation a while ago for sometimes being unhelpful, but I haven't seen anything to justify that 99% of the time, so i'd just like to see if you think that's something that has changed over time?
As a start i see that flyer recently named Solent as 'ATC Heroes' in their QSY section for providing an especially helpful service during bad weather. Anybody care to add anything of their own?
Thanks!
I'd been thinking of starting a thread for a while, but seeing as this one already exists I may as well tag it on the end of here... sorry if that's hijacking!
I was just wondering what people's impressions of Solent Radar are from a flying perspective, both VFR round or through the CTA, and IFR in/out of Southampton and Bournemouth.
I know the unit had a reputation a while ago for sometimes being unhelpful, but I haven't seen anything to justify that 99% of the time, so i'd just like to see if you think that's something that has changed over time?
As a start i see that flyer recently named Solent as 'ATC Heroes' in their QSY section for providing an especially helpful service during bad weather. Anybody care to add anything of their own?
Thanks!
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Unfortunately some units have entered the realm of folk myths and legends over their attitude to GA and transits.
One person gets refused gets wound up tells others, they then think well they aren't friendly I wont bother asking, they fly with someone else when asked why they didn't ask for transit tells the other oh they refuse transits and the myth escalates.
There are occasion when it simply isn't easy or possible to give transits, this can be for a variety of reasons. My Last unit was/is good at giving transits but I have read of an episode of recent when someone was refused and he started spreading the word of how bad they were at it, whereas we all know who work at the unit that 99% of the time they are given.
I would suggest if you are a regular flyer near any CAS and you are given the chance then visit the ATC unit, they will give you hints and tips as well as to how to best place yourself for a transit of the airspace.
One person gets refused gets wound up tells others, they then think well they aren't friendly I wont bother asking, they fly with someone else when asked why they didn't ask for transit tells the other oh they refuse transits and the myth escalates.
There are occasion when it simply isn't easy or possible to give transits, this can be for a variety of reasons. My Last unit was/is good at giving transits but I have read of an episode of recent when someone was refused and he started spreading the word of how bad they were at it, whereas we all know who work at the unit that 99% of the time they are given.
I would suggest if you are a regular flyer near any CAS and you are given the chance then visit the ATC unit, they will give you hints and tips as well as to how to best place yourself for a transit of the airspace.
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I have never had any problems with either Southampton or Solent APP.
I will only call them if I want a VFR transit - either through the Zone or to a strip within the Zone - and I have always found them friendly and helpful. I have been asked to Stand By on a few occasions but that has been when they were obviously busy and all except once (during a controller shift-change) I have been called back.
As mentioned previously, I don't use Solent APP for local flights outside the two CTRs because I believe Bournemouth APP/RAD is more appropriate, as it has the LARS facility. In my experience, they too are generally more than helpful.
JD
I will only call them if I want a VFR transit - either through the Zone or to a strip within the Zone - and I have always found them friendly and helpful. I have been asked to Stand By on a few occasions but that has been when they were obviously busy and all except once (during a controller shift-change) I have been called back.
As mentioned previously, I don't use Solent APP for local flights outside the two CTRs because I believe Bournemouth APP/RAD is more appropriate, as it has the LARS facility. In my experience, they too are generally more than helpful.
JD