Cardiff ATC

[alexj83]

Heya,

A few things at Cardiff have cropped up and I would like someones opinion, preferably an ATCO.

The ILS DME is U/S therefore the SID's have been suspended, how long is this likely to last and in the meantime what clearances are aircraft being given?

The AIRAC Ammendment (28 Days) lists a change in the COM frequency for Cardiff Radar. 126.625 is now the primary frequency for arrivals instead of 125.850. Is 126.625 acting as a final director?

Cheers

Alex

[Turn It Off]

DME is being worked on and should be back soon.

Clearances will be issued by TWR when you call and request it 10 mins prior to push and start.

126.625 is the LARS frequency, and, is occasionally used as director. Unfortunately, most people still call on 125.850 which is too busy to deal with the longer nature of the calls on LARS hence the AIP ammendment


TIO

[vector801]

Nice reply A.

Clearances that i've been giving aircraft are as follows...

e.g. BMI to EGPF - Cleared Glasgow via BCN, N864. After Noise Abatement Climb on track BCN to Altitude 6000'. Squawk......... - Hopefully with a correct readback.

Just really breaking down the route from the plan and passing it the same way we used to before the arrival of SIDS, except now we give them the cleared level of the equivalent SID.

e.g. BCN's all climb to 6000', EXM's to 5000', ALV off 12 to 6000' & ALV off 30 5000'. The last clearance remains as the same as normal due to no SID available for ALVIN off 30.


Watch this space though as there is a current new noise abatement procedure being tested. Off 30 straight ahead to 4 DME/4000' before the turn to BCN, EXM or ALV. Because the DME is as you stated U/S, when calling for a release from Radar we're amending the dep clearance to straight ahead until advised so radar can monitor the a/c through 4 miles then give either a turn to the beacon or a radar vector depending on traffic.


Hope that helped, J

P.S. A, i'm off to see Neil!!

[alexj83]

Heya Guys,

Thanks ever so much for the replies Much appreciated

Is the no turn direct ALVIN off 30 NOTAM due to the Wenvoe mast being extended or is it related to any of the current events?

Cheers

Alex

[Turn It Off]

coz of noise

[I'm not joking sir]

Vector801, I think you've been too busy taking photos down Chippy Alley and not studying the SID charts like what i do - NPR off 30 already is straight ahead to 4DME. 3000 ft is the level at which we can turn aircraft off the SID. I was told that when we're asked what NPR is we give straight ahead to 4DME.

Tidy.

[alexj83]

As far as I understood his post he said a new NPR was in the trial phase which off runway 30 is straight ahead to 4DME or 4000ft not 3000ft as it is now.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is how I understood it.

Also another question re Cardiff ATC atm, sorry if I'm being a pain. I can understand the VFR Departures but VFR arrivals I'm a bit confused, does radar assign the inbound route? when do they hand off to tower? do aircraft follow the VFR route all the way to final or do they join into the circuit?

Cheers,

Alex

[Turn It Off]

NPR is correct, until it gets changed again coz someone else moves to the area who failed to notice the bloody great big airport on the map!

VFR inbounds assigned by radar and handed to tower when considered best to do so, normally, approaching the VRP. Then, as cleared by twr, normally to a circuit position unless a helo when it might be either the circuit or aerodrome boundary.

TIO

[vector801]

A, congrats on passing the thing at the place you've just done the major thing at. Now you have a nice new thing to bring back by here see!!

Yeah offcial AIP NPR at the mo remains 4DME/3000. The bods from the airport don't want us saying 'after noise right/left turn to....' as some a/c have shown that they are turning on passing 3000' right over Cowbridge, hence the re-evaluation of the NPR. Thats why they have to continue straight ahead to 4DME before turning as they pass west of Cowbridge.

With this new trial procedure there isn't a level restriction (unless no DME in which case its SA to 4000') so in theory they could continue straight ahead to 4DME any level then make the turn.


I gather you like the pics then??

[vector801]

Ha Ha Ha...... your gonna love this.

NPR seems to be changing on a daily basis.....

Just been told by order of the Airport that all a/c north bound have to have passed 4DME & be through 4000' feet before the turn....


Mmm, good job i'm on hols after today eh!!

[I'm not joking sir]

Cheers mate! Half tidy if I do say so myself. I doubt i'm going to be much use tomorrow though.

[alexj83]

So, with all these changes are the IFR clearances still "Cleared to Manchester via a BCN1A Departure Squawk..." or are you passing the details of the NPR in these clearances.

I would assume that as the aircraft approaches the hold and tower calls radar for a release, radar would issue the ammendment to the clearances and then that instruction would be passed on by tower.

Also if any aircraft wanted to make an IFR circuit would they be given a clearance on stand or a non-standard clearance ie one issued by radar on the release?

Cheers Guys, You're beeing a real help!

Alex

[vector801]

Alexj83,


Again as the DME is still u/s there are no SIDS being issued.

Clearances have changed once again and I think they differ a little between watches. 2 days ago I was issuing clearances as i've written originally above. Over the past two days i've now given clearance as follows;

Cleared Destination, after departure climb straight ahead until advised by Cardiff Radar, Stop the Climb Altitude (6000' for all north bounds, 5000' for all southbounds), Squawk.........

I've found it easier this second way as it builds in Noise and Radar don't have to amend the clearance to Straight Ahead when the Twr requests the release.

With regards to IFR circuits. If there ever was one and with all these amendments with regards to Noise, Twr would request a clearance from radar into the circuit. It would have to be aproved by the airport and i'm sure they'd give details with regards to noise compliance. The clearance would be passed on stand or at the holding point if the a/c had landed then comenced a crew change.

Hope thats answered some of your questions, i stand corrected if i may have gotten some of it wrong.


V801

[gone_fishing]

Hi guys, sorry if I'm bringing up a "finished" thread. I was aware that Cardiff SIDs had been suspended, and that was due to DME being u/s - as published in a NOTAM. But, what has intrigued me, and confused me is the LARS unit now being more involved with arrivals. I know it was explained above, but I didn't quite understand what you were saying. Would anyone be willing to explain in more detail, covering when LARS deals with the arrivals, and when LARS is, does RAD ever deal partly with arrivals - if not does he only work departures? etc etc. Thanks very much in advance guys.

Regards,
Oliver.

[alexj83]

I believe the LARS frequency, 126.625, is being used as an IFR director during high periods of traffic on the main radar frequency; 125.850. For example, during high periods of traffic from/into Bristol and the odd flight into/from Exeter.

The Main radar frequency handles the arrivals into they have about 25 miles to run (from what I've seen) and then passes them onto "Cardiff Director" on 126.625. This basically means that the main radar controller doesn't become overloaded.

Alex

[flower]

Hopefully one of the current Cardiff ATCOs will come along and confirm this as I am out of touch now.
The reason for publishing 126.625 as the contact frequency is that many off airways flights predominately LARS traffic were calling up on the airways frequency.
This was partly down to the way the chart had the frequencies displayed meaning those who hadn't briefed but only looked at the charts assumed they called up 125.85 for a LARS service, this was not only inconvenient but blocked the far busier Airways frequency.
To try to ensure that all traffic not on airways goes to the appropriate frequency they have published in the AIP that 126.625 is the first contact frequency.
Traffic being worked by other units will be given the appropriate frequency for handover this is purely for those calling up off their own volition.

Current Cardiff ATCOs please correct as appropriate no doubt 101 new SIs etc have been published since I left !!

Well Done I'm not Joking Sir really pleased for you

[alexj83]

That all makes sense to me.

Quick Q: Larger GA/Corporate stuff does that still go northside stands 14/15 or would that go southside and park up on G?

Also, I've heard that the agreement from CWL radar to BRS radar from AMMAN/RILES for runway 27 is to be descending FL80 and on a radar heading to be kept on or east of an imaginary line drawn BRI-TALGA. Is this correct? As I have heard a few variations on this. In fact a clear up of all the agreements betwen BRS & CWL would be nice but I guess I'm pushing my luck hehe

Cheers Guys

Alex

[gone_fishing]

OK, thanks for the reply, but just to confirm, is it due to the mess ups with freq, or is it only occasionally when RAD is busy?? If it is the first, when does LARS h/o to RAD?

[alexj83]

The changes have been made because LARS traffic was calling up the airways frequency which is usually quite busy! Therefore to ensure all pilots who haven't been briefed before don't continue to make the calls on the airways frequency they have ammended the AIP entry.

Pilots who continue to use the wrong frequency will be transfered to the LARS freq. as soon as they call on 125.850.

Cheers

Alex

[gone_fishing]

Thanks Alex. Sorry about that - just got some conflicting information...

Thanks again for everyone answering my questions.