Airspace access in France
Airspace access in France
Hello all,
If one needs to access airspace in the UK in an 'unusual' fashion then the NSF/ACN processes come into play. Having worked within this framework in a previous life it worked quite well especially in dealing with the ATS units involved in providing us with a service -- usually while we spent hours causing them mischief and generally getting in their way!
I'm in a position where I've been asked by an old friend still in that business if the NSF/ACN process is a UK thing, or whether it's pan-European. I had to tell him that I simply didn't know.
Specifically, he was after trying to access French airspace in order to conduct his unusual activities. Do they have an NSF system, or equivalent? And to whom would such requests be made?
I'm now curious. Thanks for any advice.
Charley
If one needs to access airspace in the UK in an 'unusual' fashion then the NSF/ACN processes come into play. Having worked within this framework in a previous life it worked quite well especially in dealing with the ATS units involved in providing us with a service -- usually while we spent hours causing them mischief and generally getting in their way!
I'm in a position where I've been asked by an old friend still in that business if the NSF/ACN process is a UK thing, or whether it's pan-European. I had to tell him that I simply didn't know.
Specifically, he was after trying to access French airspace in order to conduct his unusual activities. Do they have an NSF system, or equivalent? And to whom would such requests be made?
I'm now curious. Thanks for any advice.
Charley
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Geneva
Age: 48
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what's the nfs/acn solution?
anyway in france anything unusual will go through alot of paperwork and the DGAC (direction generale de l'aviation civile).
http://www.dgac.fr/ (in french, it doesn't seem to exist in english ...)
and you might be able to get something through easa.
http://www.easa.eu.int/home/index.html
seb
anyway in france anything unusual will go through alot of paperwork and the DGAC (direction generale de l'aviation civile).
http://www.dgac.fr/ (in french, it doesn't seem to exist in english ...)
and you might be able to get something through easa.
http://www.easa.eu.int/home/index.html
seb
Thanks Airseb.
I've looked into it and it doesn't look as if France have an equivalent to the NSF or ACN system.
NSF's are 'Non-Standard Flights'. If you're not doing an 'ordinary' arrival, departure or zone transit of a UK airfield with controlled airspace then you'd normally have to submit an NSF application. You explain who you are, what you want to do (locations, altitudes, flight duration, dates, etc) and submit it to the national air traffic service provider, NATS plc.
NATS then evaluate the request and either accept or decline it based on how difficult it would be for them to accomodate the flight. If they accept it, they return it with a reference number and a list of telephone numbers. When the time comes to fly it, we would ring the controllers on the day and they would tell us whether we can do it or not based on expected traffic. They will have a copy of our application so will have the general details already, including maps of our intended flight.
It's a good system because we would know in advance how feasible the flight was, and when we want to make the flight we can co-ordinate with ATC quite easily - they have our intentions already, they just have to say 'oui' or 'non' for that particular day.
I used to be involved in flying aerial surveys collecting data for customers like Google Earth. So we used to fly a straight line east, for example, and at the end turn west and fly another straight line 500m away from the last one. So when we are in a controller's airspace we're probably a nightmare for them to fit their usual traffic around. Our tracks and altitudes have very strict tolerances so we often don't have much flexibility to offer the controller.
France doesn't appear to have a similar system. So getting permission to fly a survey near an airport or other airspace is going to be a nightmare for my ex-colleague; he'll probably have to explain his intentions every time he contacts the controllers (who probably still won't fully understand), prior co-ordination might not be possible, etc.
And if the DGAC have as much paperwork as you suggest, it probably won't be easy to get approval.
Thank you for the info.
Charley
I've looked into it and it doesn't look as if France have an equivalent to the NSF or ACN system.
NSF's are 'Non-Standard Flights'. If you're not doing an 'ordinary' arrival, departure or zone transit of a UK airfield with controlled airspace then you'd normally have to submit an NSF application. You explain who you are, what you want to do (locations, altitudes, flight duration, dates, etc) and submit it to the national air traffic service provider, NATS plc.
NATS then evaluate the request and either accept or decline it based on how difficult it would be for them to accomodate the flight. If they accept it, they return it with a reference number and a list of telephone numbers. When the time comes to fly it, we would ring the controllers on the day and they would tell us whether we can do it or not based on expected traffic. They will have a copy of our application so will have the general details already, including maps of our intended flight.
It's a good system because we would know in advance how feasible the flight was, and when we want to make the flight we can co-ordinate with ATC quite easily - they have our intentions already, they just have to say 'oui' or 'non' for that particular day.
I used to be involved in flying aerial surveys collecting data for customers like Google Earth. So we used to fly a straight line east, for example, and at the end turn west and fly another straight line 500m away from the last one. So when we are in a controller's airspace we're probably a nightmare for them to fit their usual traffic around. Our tracks and altitudes have very strict tolerances so we often don't have much flexibility to offer the controller.
France doesn't appear to have a similar system. So getting permission to fly a survey near an airport or other airspace is going to be a nightmare for my ex-colleague; he'll probably have to explain his intentions every time he contacts the controllers (who probably still won't fully understand), prior co-ordination might not be possible, etc.
And if the DGAC have as much paperwork as you suggest, it probably won't be easy to get approval.
Thank you for the info.
Charley
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Geneva
Age: 48
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
there's another place you might (with difficulty) get some info is from the guys who do surveys and aerial photography. mostly ther's the IGN (national geographical institute). i know they've got one or two aircraft doing only surveys. don't know how to get in contact with them though...
good luck
seb
good luck
seb
