An ATC question from a B767 Sim Instructor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An ATC question from a B767 Sim Instructor
Dear All,
Today one of my students came up with a great idea, as he got airbourne with a major engine malfunction, he could not remember his callsign, so he asked to change it to MAYDAY 1. I complied as ATC and it made comms easier for both the pilot and ATC.
Is this acceptable and what do you controllers think of this?
78
Today one of my students came up with a great idea, as he got airbourne with a major engine malfunction, he could not remember his callsign, so he asked to change it to MAYDAY 1. I complied as ATC and it made comms easier for both the pilot and ATC.
Is this acceptable and what do you controllers think of this?
78
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: On a Ship Near You
Posts: 787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chuck in the company/type too that would help... Depends on the environment really and/or visability.
Tower environments without radar may need help as to who is involved if they haven't got radar and can't see you etc. 7700 on the Txp is a must and will help significantly in a radar environment.
Tower environments without radar may need help as to who is involved if they haven't got radar and can't see you etc. 7700 on the Txp is a must and will help significantly in a radar environment.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Oztraylia
Age: 53
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mayday 1
Make excellent sense to me. You won't forget the callsign, the difficulty may be in changing the callsign on the radar display, with some systems this can be more difficult.
FGS
FGS
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Given a particular callsing, the controller has before him all the details of that flight - type, company, etc, etc. Change the callsign and that info is lost. Just stick with the tried and tested procedures IMHO.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: LACC
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you're speaking to any of the sectors based at LACC, it is very easy for us to change the callsign if necessary but if you're heading to another unit after us it could become complicated and is probably not best practice. Just prefix the callsign with Mayday as the Thomson 757 at Manchester did after bird strike (see youtube for good video)
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southampton,hampshire,england
Posts: 869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
78deg
You asked for an opinion. I would say NO, absolutely not.
If you're desperate just say "mayday"...95% chance we know who you are.
We can confirm after a settling down/stabilisation period.
Let's say your callsign was "Euravia 3465" and you shout "Mayday 1"....what happens if we have in our system....Delta 1...Raffles 1....Speedthing 1....Clipper 1....Laker 1...or anything 1.
The last fam flight I did was on a Danair Comet and the guys wrote the callsign on a big card above the centre console for easy reference......[only remember the flight because they asked me to lean forward a little during descent and chuckled as a stream of water went down my neck].
If you're desperate just say "mayday"...95% chance we know who you are.
We can confirm after a settling down/stabilisation period.
Let's say your callsign was "Euravia 3465" and you shout "Mayday 1"....what happens if we have in our system....Delta 1...Raffles 1....Speedthing 1....Clipper 1....Laker 1...or anything 1.
The last fam flight I did was on a Danair Comet and the guys wrote the callsign on a big card above the centre console for easy reference......[only remember the flight because they asked me to lean forward a little during descent and chuckled as a stream of water went down my neck].
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In the South !
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
he could not remember his callsign, so he asked to change it to MAYDAY 1
My tip - get the stude to eat more greens and improve his memory.
Yours (semi tongue in cheek)
ATCO Fred
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hants
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SQUAWK EMERGENCY....
Unless you are in a nosedive, you always have time to do so.
If you are working a unit that has code callsign conversion, the fact you are an emergency will be highlighted by this action, as well as your callsign.
If you are working a unit that does not have CCC, but ar ereceiving a radar service the ATCO will be able to tell which A/C you are because he or she will have maintained tack ident, and will therefore be able to call you by your callsign, even if you forget it temporarily.
If you were in class G airspace receiving a FIS from a radar unit, things become a little more complicated as you may not have been identified, however, as a 767 driver, I doubt that would be the case very often.
Unless you are in a nosedive, you always have time to do so.
If you are working a unit that has code callsign conversion, the fact you are an emergency will be highlighted by this action, as well as your callsign.
If you are working a unit that does not have CCC, but ar ereceiving a radar service the ATCO will be able to tell which A/C you are because he or she will have maintained tack ident, and will therefore be able to call you by your callsign, even if you forget it temporarily.
If you were in class G airspace receiving a FIS from a radar unit, things become a little more complicated as you may not have been identified, however, as a 767 driver, I doubt that would be the case very often.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: india
Age: 55
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
whatever u do but my god dont use call sign as mayday
in reality all will stop txting to enable u to help
"mayday"is added in a call by the acft in distress
a controller all his life prays for not hearing those words
in reality all will stop txting to enable u to help
"mayday"is added in a call by the acft in distress
a controller all his life prays for not hearing those words
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear All
Thanks for the replies so far.
I get the impression that for worldwide operations, we should stick to MAYDAY CALLSIGN, but it might be OK to change in some areas.
Therefore as a training point I think I will stick to MAYDAY CALLSIGN.
If the student who came up with this is reading, I still think that it was a great idea.
ATB
78deg
Thanks for the replies so far.
I get the impression that for worldwide operations, we should stick to MAYDAY CALLSIGN, but it might be OK to change in some areas.
Therefore as a training point I think I will stick to MAYDAY CALLSIGN.
If the student who came up with this is reading, I still think that it was a great idea.
ATB
78deg
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAP413 Ch2 page 6 I think this might answer a few of the statements made. Mayday before the callsign is probably IMHO the best bet.
Of course it may well differ outwith the UK.
1.8.4 An aircraft shall not change its callsign type during a flight.
Of course it may well differ outwith the UK.
1.8.4 An aircraft shall not change its callsign type during a flight.
However, where there is a likelihood that confusion may occur because of similar callsigns, an aircraft may be
instructed by an air traffic service unit (ATSU) to change the type of its callsign temporarily.
instructed by an air traffic service unit (ATSU) to change the type of its callsign temporarily.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: YYZ via the UK
Age: 49
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If a plane suffers a major emergency on departure...then I think the last thing in the pilots mind will be "Oooh what is my callsign!" Flying/stablising the plane and the checklists will take priority......satisfying the phraseology requirements of ATC is secondary IMO.
Bit unfair in that situation to accuse them of needing better memory etc etc. Anything action that is unneccesary "think" time hardly helps in an emergency cockpit environment. One of the occasions again when it helps for us to do fam visits to the Sims and see the workload in the cockpit on departure when an emergency is simulated.
It shouldn't be too hard for us ATC ers to find out who it is surely? We have the tools.
Bit unfair in that situation to accuse them of needing better memory etc etc. Anything action that is unneccesary "think" time hardly helps in an emergency cockpit environment. One of the occasions again when it helps for us to do fam visits to the Sims and see the workload in the cockpit on departure when an emergency is simulated.
It shouldn't be too hard for us ATC ers to find out who it is surely? We have the tools.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: AAVA Heaven
Age: 42
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
78 deg
I think most ATCO's acknowledge that you are flying the plane firstly and that is fair enough in any circumstance not just emergency, People have mentioned the 7700, which is extremely useful to all on the ATCO side. Without insulting your intelligence or assuming what you may or may not know, this gives not only the ATCO you're talking to a head's up (lots of flashing on the screen) but also lets all other units see you. e.g. recently an EZY went into EGGD on one engine and Bristol knew the call was coming from us long before we called, allowing us to focus on the plane.
As someone has quoted the regs, what the trainee did wasn't wrong, as you said he requested it. As long as everyone's happy, but I would be wary of tempting fate in changing callsigns and subsequent confusion should you change frequencies. Personally, I would be reluctant to change it, but I appreciate some callsigns are bonkers - the best I've seen over the last few days are C/sign1ER6 and C/SignJR396 (or something like that!)
Coming up with new ideas and challenging the norm (within regulations, obviously!) is the only way to improve however, so well done trainee!
WW
I think most ATCO's acknowledge that you are flying the plane firstly and that is fair enough in any circumstance not just emergency, People have mentioned the 7700, which is extremely useful to all on the ATCO side. Without insulting your intelligence or assuming what you may or may not know, this gives not only the ATCO you're talking to a head's up (lots of flashing on the screen) but also lets all other units see you. e.g. recently an EZY went into EGGD on one engine and Bristol knew the call was coming from us long before we called, allowing us to focus on the plane.
As someone has quoted the regs, what the trainee did wasn't wrong, as you said he requested it. As long as everyone's happy, but I would be wary of tempting fate in changing callsigns and subsequent confusion should you change frequencies. Personally, I would be reluctant to change it, but I appreciate some callsigns are bonkers - the best I've seen over the last few days are C/sign1ER6 and C/SignJR396 (or something like that!)
Coming up with new ideas and challenging the norm (within regulations, obviously!) is the only way to improve however, so well done trainee!
WW
