Social side of NATS
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Started out in a residents private club in Cheadle then went to a "working men's" club in Poynton, don't think they'd let you north bankers in there 
Good luck for the weekend, ya gonna need it - just make sure you beat them Italians tonight so I can get full enjoyment of you loosing the final
Good luck for the weekend, ya gonna need it - just make sure you beat them Italians tonight so I can get full enjoyment of you loosing the final
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So misunderstood...I just wanted to dance...why wouldn't they let me dance mammy?
As Alan Brazil says: Big Game tonight, Big game tonight supporting man utd of course mankyboy. Hope you enjoy it if you aren't working.
Stay in school kid, get a GOOD degree, live a little, there's no rush. Gee Smelly i've got a feeling I wrote this somewhere before.
Ciao
As Alan Brazil says: Big Game tonight, Big game tonight supporting man utd of course mankyboy. Hope you enjoy it if you aren't working.
Stay in school kid, get a GOOD degree, live a little, there's no rush. Gee Smelly i've got a feeling I wrote this somewhere before.
Ciao
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This thread was only one page long when last I looked! Seems to have got a tad heated since then...
So, sticking to the facts. Here they are as I see them.
1) Only if you've been to BOTH university and CATC/some other ATC training establishment do you really know if a degree is worth it. I wouldn't be without mine. My only regret concerning the degree is that I successfully applealed the the result and got a lower second (a Desmond to those in the know, or a drinking man's first). Had I kept the third class degree I was originally awarded for my services to the brewing industry, I would be dining out on the fact to this day. I gather Oxford used to give 4th class degrees, and you had to be a really special drinker to get one of those.
2) A degree is of no particular value to operational ATC. If anything, ATC college exams are closer in style to school exams, or at least to school exams in my day when we learned about things other than lesbian parenthood and rehoming of injured foxes.
3) The drop-out rate at CATC or whatever the **** it's called these days is considerable, and the drop-out rate at units of first posting is higher still, so a fall-back option is well worth considering. That's not to say it wouldn't be possible to do a degree AFTER going to CATC if you were unsuccessful in training.
4) ATC is not the job it used to be. A watch manager at a NATS unit sent me an email a few days ago, and he is genuinely worried about his pension after 30+ years of service, and deeply concerned about the "thought police" aspects of the new corporate culture. The day will likely come when NATS introduces individual rostering in order to work every ATCO to their contractual hours and do away with the resultant surplus staff. Again, a fall-back is not a bad idea.
5) Potential recruits should try getting invited to all-ATC parties. Just see how much of the conversation is about work! It is really, really difficult to even turn the conversation to sh*gg*ng at an all-ATC party! Unless of course, the talk is of who is being sh*gg*d by management and what precisely that person would or should do to sh*g the manager in return. For those about to attend such a party, my suggestion is a cactus and some KY jelly. For serious overuse of management-speak, omit the KY.
6) Ultimately, it all comes down to personal choice. Of course, getting into NATS as a trainee is hardly a certainty even for someone with all the right ticks in the right boxes, so if you're in a position to apply to uni you should do so anyway. I wouldn't be without the uni experience for anything. What I can remember of it was great.
So, sticking to the facts. Here they are as I see them.
1) Only if you've been to BOTH university and CATC/some other ATC training establishment do you really know if a degree is worth it. I wouldn't be without mine. My only regret concerning the degree is that I successfully applealed the the result and got a lower second (a Desmond to those in the know, or a drinking man's first). Had I kept the third class degree I was originally awarded for my services to the brewing industry, I would be dining out on the fact to this day. I gather Oxford used to give 4th class degrees, and you had to be a really special drinker to get one of those.
2) A degree is of no particular value to operational ATC. If anything, ATC college exams are closer in style to school exams, or at least to school exams in my day when we learned about things other than lesbian parenthood and rehoming of injured foxes.
3) The drop-out rate at CATC or whatever the **** it's called these days is considerable, and the drop-out rate at units of first posting is higher still, so a fall-back option is well worth considering. That's not to say it wouldn't be possible to do a degree AFTER going to CATC if you were unsuccessful in training.
4) ATC is not the job it used to be. A watch manager at a NATS unit sent me an email a few days ago, and he is genuinely worried about his pension after 30+ years of service, and deeply concerned about the "thought police" aspects of the new corporate culture. The day will likely come when NATS introduces individual rostering in order to work every ATCO to their contractual hours and do away with the resultant surplus staff. Again, a fall-back is not a bad idea.
5) Potential recruits should try getting invited to all-ATC parties. Just see how much of the conversation is about work! It is really, really difficult to even turn the conversation to sh*gg*ng at an all-ATC party! Unless of course, the talk is of who is being sh*gg*d by management and what precisely that person would or should do to sh*g the manager in return. For those about to attend such a party, my suggestion is a cactus and some KY jelly. For serious overuse of management-speak, omit the KY.
6) Ultimately, it all comes down to personal choice. Of course, getting into NATS as a trainee is hardly a certainty even for someone with all the right ticks in the right boxes, so if you're in a position to apply to uni you should do so anyway. I wouldn't be without the uni experience for anything. What I can remember of it was great.
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If you want some life experience, go to Uni. Bournemouth isn't the place for partying when you've got studying to do and bear in mind once valid you're potentially and most likely to be in the same place doing the same thing until you retire. Be nice to have some good memories to get you through the dullness. Uni is far harder than studying at the college. It's just you have plenty of downtime in between. Uni takes independent thinking, development of new ideas and you need to really understand a subject to pass the exams. On my course examiners would constantly set questions which had never been seen before to see if you had been relying on past papers to get you through. The college is very much high school learning, repeating parrot fashion what you have been told to, the understanding part is explored more in oral boards. It's the intensity of the learning which is a killer. I agree, a degree, if we mean the piece of paper you get, is no use really in ATC at all. But your social skills and independence will have been developed, you will have learnt how to learn, have a good group of non atc mates (so you're not always talking shop) and some good stories to tell to keep us entertained on night shifts. It cost me a fair bit in student loans and overdrafts which is going to take forever and a day to pay off but worth every penny.
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to the people that tend to have a hard chip on their shoulder and make it look like NATS took the best years of their lives away, and you're stuck doing the same job int he same place for the rest of your life, do you actually think that it's any different in other professions ?
Now, I don't work for NATS yet but I have been an employed worker for the past 10 years and I haven't seen much happiness anywhere.
Do people actually believe that graduates end up landing dream jobs these days ?
You get what you can get and you get on the best way you can.
If all NATS can offer me is a good wage and some decent leave, actually that's good enough for me !
In fact, if I can choose between a crap job that pays me 23k (what I am current doing) and a potentially crap job which can pay me 45k, I'll go for the latter !
And if you don't like it you can still leave, it's not a prison !
intherealworld, do you think that university degrees are different ? You go thru "parrot fashiong" learning until the day you passed, only to realise you are not prepared for any kind of real working environment.
Don't blame NATS for giving individuals a chance to make a decent living.
And hurry up taking those college places available before it'll be all Polish students !
Now, I don't work for NATS yet but I have been an employed worker for the past 10 years and I haven't seen much happiness anywhere.
Do people actually believe that graduates end up landing dream jobs these days ?
You get what you can get and you get on the best way you can.
If all NATS can offer me is a good wage and some decent leave, actually that's good enough for me !
In fact, if I can choose between a crap job that pays me 23k (what I am current doing) and a potentially crap job which can pay me 45k, I'll go for the latter !
And if you don't like it you can still leave, it's not a prison !
intherealworld, do you think that university degrees are different ? You go thru "parrot fashiong" learning until the day you passed, only to realise you are not prepared for any kind of real working environment.
Don't blame NATS for giving individuals a chance to make a decent living.
And hurry up taking those college places available before it'll be all Polish students !
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intherealworld, do you think that university degrees are different ? You go thru "parrot fashiong" learning until the day you passed, only to realise you are not prepared for any kind of real working environment.
to the people that tend to have a hard chip on their shoulder and make it look like NATS took the best years of their lives away, and you're stuck doing the same job int he same place for the rest of your life, do you actually think that it's any different in other professions ?
Now, I don't work for NATS yet but I have been an employed worker for the past 10 years and I haven't seen much happiness anywhere.
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It might be worth pointing out - and I think intherealworld is alluding to it - that once valdiated at an operational unit, a controller then has to set about maintaining a currency/recency of their ATC license.
You can comfortably take a 2/3 week holiday which is fine for me - I by the way, have no degree and don't regret the fact - but if you do dream of backpacking/forest planting/trekking to the poles etc. be prepared for the fact you will not just be coming back to work, you'll be coming back to re-validate.
I don't regret my choices, in fact i think my choices worked well for me, but validating once on each sector was enough for me!!
(Also, sabbaticals used to be commonplace but I don't know how our new NATS feels on the matter)
WW
You can comfortably take a 2/3 week holiday which is fine for me - I by the way, have no degree and don't regret the fact - but if you do dream of backpacking/forest planting/trekking to the poles etc. be prepared for the fact you will not just be coming back to work, you'll be coming back to re-validate.
I don't regret my choices, in fact i think my choices worked well for me, but validating once on each sector was enough for me!!
(Also, sabbaticals used to be commonplace but I don't know how our new NATS feels on the matter)
WW
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PS. I found Bournemouth a more than satisfactory place to party. I was still conditioned to learning, so I studied through the week and did almost nothing ATC related at the weekends, barring the aforementioned dreaded oral boards!!! 
Each person is different though!
WW
Each person is different though!
WW
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Oh has this thread carried on? Interesting stuff. Gives me a chance for a final snipe though.
Wild Westener, seems like you worked hard and partied hard... respect. It would be interesting to hear your opinion if you could do the same thing on the new intense courses and if you found the variety of people different. Or did you recently go through CATC? Be interesting to note the differences.
oh Van Der Hum I notice you never PM'd me while I was away there, surprise eh you sneaky two faced, clique building, little oik, can't believe I forgot who you were. Must have blanked you out.
Note you write
'However, that did mean that there was no one worthy/intelligent enough for him to talk to at the college! '
Wrong mate I just didn't like you , so build a bridge and get over it and don't consider yourself to be everyone. I spoke to and liked lots of people there. On the course there were only two who annoyed me, you being one. Everyone else was top class but I as you know I was sadly preoccupied with other ridiculous issues.
Oh and flower most threads are pretty repetitive on here. mine just criticise your little bubble world. my experience was sadly not as shortlived as you may think.
Wizad don't tell me where to post threads pal. If I want to go to the one eyed Rangers fans donkey owners site I will. Just ignore them unless they strike a nerve that is
Best wishes to all, fascinating job.
Wild Westener, seems like you worked hard and partied hard... respect. It would be interesting to hear your opinion if you could do the same thing on the new intense courses and if you found the variety of people different. Or did you recently go through CATC? Be interesting to note the differences.
oh Van Der Hum I notice you never PM'd me while I was away there, surprise eh you sneaky two faced, clique building, little oik, can't believe I forgot who you were. Must have blanked you out.
Note you write
'However, that did mean that there was no one worthy/intelligent enough for him to talk to at the college! '
Wrong mate I just didn't like you , so build a bridge and get over it and don't consider yourself to be everyone. I spoke to and liked lots of people there. On the course there were only two who annoyed me, you being one. Everyone else was top class but I as you know I was sadly preoccupied with other ridiculous issues.
Oh and flower most threads are pretty repetitive on here. mine just criticise your little bubble world. my experience was sadly not as shortlived as you may think.
Wizad don't tell me where to post threads pal. If I want to go to the one eyed Rangers fans donkey owners site I will. Just ignore them unless they strike a nerve that is
Best wishes to all, fascinating job.
Last edited by Scotsliveit; 15th May 2007 at 13:55. Reason: forgot a word
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Scotsliveit,
I joined NATS in the heady summers back at the turn of the century, just as NATS was going PPP. Therefore I got the substantially better trainee deal and the exciting share issue! Lucky me, eh?!
I suspect the easier financial situation reduced my stress levels and increased my alcohol intake, so I've no doubt it's tougher for those on the frankly ridiculous terms/cond's nowadays.
I was at the college recently, to do an instructor course, so I saw some superficial differences...
Firstly, i doubt the courses are any more intense than the ones I did, and in fact we had to endure it for longer periods as we did the extra ratings. Those ultimately unused ratings however, prepared me a damn site better than the poor sods now. My trainee the other day for example had no idea what was involved with a particular type of approach at Cardiff the other day - when the ATCO at FF told him he glazed over with that classic trainee response... Roger (
, did we really understand the message?!).
Speaking from the outside, the foundation courses, or whatever they're called don't seem to provide much foundation.
Secondly, the new intakes there must have an average age similar to the arsenal carling cup team and HND's in hairdressing! The last I heard, a creche was being installed to replace the common room, formerly the cinema, I believe. In fairness, the entry standards are still the same, so I guess that this is a reflection on the current t's + c's offered by NATS to trainees. I certainly don't knock youngsters, i was 19 when I joined.
Right, now I'm going to take your bait...
As this forum is meant to be about the social side of NATS, i'll point out a clue you give away in your post. Clearly you're not of the blue persuasion up there on the banks of the Clyde, which might well be a factor in any social issues (God forbid you might actually support Partick Thistle) you have.
So far, after you're "final swipe", you've posted a couple more times!! I suspect another may be forthcoming!
Enjoy Glasgow, it's the only thing I miss about being in NATS.
WW
Lenny, i'm the moderator of the one-eyed Rangers fans donkey owners site, so if you need the link...
And prospective trainees, if you end up at LACC the christmas do's come complete with live entertainment in the form of management fist fights!!
I joined NATS in the heady summers back at the turn of the century, just as NATS was going PPP. Therefore I got the substantially better trainee deal and the exciting share issue!
Lucky me, eh?!I suspect the easier financial situation reduced my stress levels and increased my alcohol intake, so I've no doubt it's tougher for those on the frankly ridiculous terms/cond's nowadays.
I was at the college recently, to do an instructor course, so I saw some superficial differences...
Firstly, i doubt the courses are any more intense than the ones I did, and in fact we had to endure it for longer periods as we did the extra ratings. Those ultimately unused ratings however, prepared me a damn site better than the poor sods now. My trainee the other day for example had no idea what was involved with a particular type of approach at Cardiff the other day - when the ATCO at FF told him he glazed over with that classic trainee response... Roger (
, did we really understand the message?!).Speaking from the outside, the foundation courses, or whatever they're called don't seem to provide much foundation.
Secondly, the new intakes there must have an average age similar to the arsenal carling cup team and HND's in hairdressing! The last I heard, a creche was being installed to replace the common room, formerly the cinema, I believe. In fairness, the entry standards are still the same, so I guess that this is a reflection on the current t's + c's offered by NATS to trainees. I certainly don't knock youngsters, i was 19 when I joined.
Right, now I'm going to take your bait...
As this forum is meant to be about the social side of NATS, i'll point out a clue you give away in your post. Clearly you're not of the blue persuasion up there on the banks of the Clyde, which might well be a factor in any social issues (God forbid you might actually support Partick Thistle
) you have.So far, after you're "final swipe", you've posted a couple more times!! I suspect another may be forthcoming!
Enjoy Glasgow, it's the only thing I miss about being in NATS.
WW
Lenny, i'm the moderator of the one-eyed Rangers fans donkey owners site, so if you need the link...
And prospective trainees, if you end up at LACC the christmas do's come complete with live entertainment in the form of management fist fights!!
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Lots of calls for certain users to be banned, censured, etc.
Let's just let everyone read the posts (which are deemed by myself to be relevant to the issue), and make up their own minds about people's opinions, circumstances, biases, jaundices, and so on.
Posts which just trade insults won't figure of course, but if somone makes a critcism of something or has a polarised viewpoint, then use facts and intellect to shoot them down and show them as being worthless, if you can.
You can have a good time socially in NATS if you are in a mind to. It just needs you to be a 'good guy' (or girl) and to balance mixing your work life with your social and non work life.
Let's just let everyone read the posts (which are deemed by myself to be relevant to the issue), and make up their own minds about people's opinions, circumstances, biases, jaundices, and so on.
Posts which just trade insults won't figure of course, but if somone makes a critcism of something or has a polarised viewpoint, then use facts and intellect to shoot them down and show them as being worthless, if you can.
You can have a good time socially in NATS if you are in a mind to. It just needs you to be a 'good guy' (or girl) and to balance mixing your work life with your social and non work life.
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radar,
I see your comment comes right after mine... sorry to you and any other offended parties if it is me that you are referring to!! Paranoia complex, you see! (And novice ppruner)
WW
I see your comment comes right after mine... sorry to you and any other offended parties if it is me that you are referring to!! Paranoia complex, you see! (And novice ppruner)
WW
