prospect ? genuine trade union or nats department
or then again you might not spot any happy, cheerful NATS employees @LXGB............
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Madrid FIR
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We may have 'accepted' the deal, but it was offered on a 'take it or leave it' basis. NATS screwed up the bid for the contract, and once overheads are added there is no profit. 
The pay deal was offered on the basis that the extra pay would have to be offset by natural wastage losses for the assistants. Those losses are now filtering down to the point that the airport is currently staying open only because assistants are working overtime. Came within a hair's breadth of closing last Sunday and Monday when one went sick.
Under SERCO they were paid peanuts, got no overtime, and were generally treated like dog's droppings. But they all pulled together as a team and were always willing to stand in for a sick colleague. Now NATS/Prospect have given a welcome pay deal, and are paying overtime, but everybody is p1ssed off, on the verge of refusing to work overtime (= airfield closing) and couldn't give a damn about the company. Probably because NATS have spent nearly 18 months p1ssing us about by cherry-picking various terms and conditions to suit themselves. One moment we are told we should be proud to be part of the company, then when we refer to the staff handbook we are told it doesn't apply to us. Except when the company wants something from us, and then conveniently refers us back to the handbook. Neither NATS nor Prospect will give us a clue about where we stand with the company, and there will be a rebellion soon.
BD - if you are reading this, my compliments to Admiral Hooper, but there's no point in leading people if they don't follow. Maybe I should point this out to PB, but he hasn't got the guts to come out here and sit on a bar stool.
The pay deal was offered on the basis that the extra pay would have to be offset by natural wastage losses for the assistants. Those losses are now filtering down to the point that the airport is currently staying open only because assistants are working overtime. Came within a hair's breadth of closing last Sunday and Monday when one went sick.Under SERCO they were paid peanuts, got no overtime, and were generally treated like dog's droppings. But they all pulled together as a team and were always willing to stand in for a sick colleague. Now NATS/Prospect have given a welcome pay deal, and are paying overtime, but everybody is p1ssed off, on the verge of refusing to work overtime (= airfield closing) and couldn't give a damn about the company. Probably because NATS have spent nearly 18 months p1ssing us about by cherry-picking various terms and conditions to suit themselves. One moment we are told we should be proud to be part of the company, then when we refer to the staff handbook we are told it doesn't apply to us. Except when the company wants something from us, and then conveniently refers us back to the handbook. Neither NATS nor Prospect will give us a clue about where we stand with the company, and there will be a rebellion soon.
BD - if you are reading this, my compliments to Admiral Hooper, but there's no point in leading people if they don't follow. Maybe I should point this out to PB, but he hasn't got the guts to come out here and sit on a bar stool.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The land that taste forgot
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
startrek,
of course we are happy to have a pension, but bearing in mind we had one with serco of a similar benefit level forgive me for not overdoing the gratitude.
as for the pay deal as radarman said it was a take it or leave it. also tied into it were,
disciplinary/grievence procedure,
maternity/paternity/adoption benefits
attendance policy
equal opportunities policy
notice period
mobility
drugs/alcohol policy
if we didnt accept the pay deal the above would be withdrawn.
of course we are happy to have a pension, but bearing in mind we had one with serco of a similar benefit level forgive me for not overdoing the gratitude.
as for the pay deal as radarman said it was a take it or leave it. also tied into it were,
disciplinary/grievence procedure,
maternity/paternity/adoption benefits
attendance policy
equal opportunities policy
notice period
mobility
drugs/alcohol policy
if we didnt accept the pay deal the above would be withdrawn.
Beady Eye
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,495
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems to me, from the little you guys have written, that you want your cake and eat it. You wanted the paydeal etc. and knew there was going to be a downside and now the reality has come home to roost.
Ahem, no-one held a gun to your head or twisted your arm up your back. You made a choice.
BD
Ahem, no-one held a gun to your head or twisted your arm up your back. You made a choice.
BD
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The land that taste forgot
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Choice..................
remind me again of the concept of choice
all i would like is to have the correct number of staff to run my shift.i do not want to have to call staff at 7.30 on their days off to try and cover a rosta that doesnt work
it would be greatly appreciated to know where i stand in relation to my terms and conditions. all i have is a letter dated jan 2006 welcoming me to nats. and that its the staff handbook only aplies to me when it suits management.
i once again will not be able to take my leave entitlement as we do not have the staff to cover.
and finally if i'm rostered to work till 23.00 i would like to go home to my family at that time and not be expected to work extra hours for gratis becouse the operators cant make their schedule.
correct no one held a gun to my head, but also no one is going to pay my mortgage
remind me again of the concept of choice
all i would like is to have the correct number of staff to run my shift.i do not want to have to call staff at 7.30 on their days off to try and cover a rosta that doesnt work
it would be greatly appreciated to know where i stand in relation to my terms and conditions. all i have is a letter dated jan 2006 welcoming me to nats. and that its the staff handbook only aplies to me when it suits management.
i once again will not be able to take my leave entitlement as we do not have the staff to cover.
and finally if i'm rostered to work till 23.00 i would like to go home to my family at that time and not be expected to work extra hours for gratis becouse the operators cant make their schedule.
correct no one held a gun to my head, but also no one is going to pay my mortgage
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Gibraltar
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As for the culling of assistants (part of the paydeal), we were told it would happen once new technology was introduced that would mean less manpower would be needed. To date I haven't seen any new technology @LXGB, unless is invisible to the naked eye............
Doesn't matter........people just won't go sick or take any leave.......
Doesn't matter........people just won't go sick or take any leave.......
Beady Eye
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,495
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You choose to do something, or you don't.
Obviously it does work, you're making it. So no 'pressure' on management to change things.
In the UK its the law to have an employment contract. But you're not in the UK so I don't know where you stand.
If you had a contract you'd know your hours. If flights were delayed due staff shortages that would grab management attention.
I say again, choice. Your choice to continue to work as you do and your remedy seems to be whinging about it in this forum. 
BD
all i would like is to have the correct number of staff to run my shift.i do not want to have to call staff at 7.30 on their days off to try and cover a rosta that doesnt work
it would be greatly appreciated to know where i stand in relation to my terms and conditions. all i have is a letter dated jan 2006 welcoming me to nats.
and finally if i'm rostered to work till 23.00 i would like to go home to my family at that time and not be expected to work extra hours for gratis becouse the operators cant make their schedule.
correct no one held a gun to my head, but also no one is going to pay my mortgage
BD
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Madrid FIR
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BD,
Reading between the lines of your posts I could almost say you are inciting us to strike! Yes, we are making things work by stretching the elastic to breaking point. But at least that shows we are professional enough, and sufficiently considerate of passengers, not to throw our toys out of the cot and close the airport, which is what you seem to want us to do. Is your surname Scargill by any chance?
Unfortunately, being professional plays right into the hands of management, so the only way my colleagues can let off steam is through the auspices of PPRuNe.
Reading between the lines of your posts I could almost say you are inciting us to strike! Yes, we are making things work by stretching the elastic to breaking point. But at least that shows we are professional enough, and sufficiently considerate of passengers, not to throw our toys out of the cot and close the airport, which is what you seem to want us to do. Is your surname Scargill by any chance?
Unfortunately, being professional plays right into the hands of management, so the only way my colleagues can let off steam is through the auspices of PPRuNe.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The land that taste forgot
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bd,
at least by "whinging on this forum" as you so eloquentley put it, i can now add the quotes of Admiral Grace Hooper to my cocktail party reparte.
Got any other good ones?
at least by "whinging on this forum" as you so eloquentley put it, i can now add the quotes of Admiral Grace Hooper to my cocktail party reparte.
Got any other good ones?
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sunny Warwickshire
Posts: 438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote:
and finally if i'm rostered to work till 23.00 i would like to go home to my family at that time and not be expected to work extra hours for gratis becouse the operators cant make their schedule.
Then just close the airfield and have doen with it, what better way to get the attention of NATS senior management! Other places do it, why not Gib?
and finally if i'm rostered to work till 23.00 i would like to go home to my family at that time and not be expected to work extra hours for gratis becouse the operators cant make their schedule.
Then just close the airfield and have doen with it, what better way to get the attention of NATS senior management! Other places do it, why not Gib?
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately the only way NATS management may take true note of your grievances is to work to rule, that doesn't diminish your professional standing in the eyes of other ATCOs or at least it shouldn't.
A certain unit did that a few years ago regarding overtime, shut the airport for short periods of time on a number of days, problem very soon got addressed. Working to your hours and terms does not mean striking which I think most of us would only do over a very significant issue ie pensions , just doing your proper hours and not making it work at whatever cost could well be the best way forward for you at this stage. NATS doesn't like headlines in the newspapers.
A certain unit did that a few years ago regarding overtime, shut the airport for short periods of time on a number of days, problem very soon got addressed. Working to your hours and terms does not mean striking which I think most of us would only do over a very significant issue ie pensions , just doing your proper hours and not making it work at whatever cost could well be the best way forward for you at this stage. NATS doesn't like headlines in the newspapers.
Beady Eye
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,495
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually I'm very sympathetic to your plight and have been playing Devils advocate to some extent.
Unfortunately, being professional plays right into the hands of management, so the only way my colleagues can let off steam is through the auspices of PPRuNe.
Regards
BD
Beady Eye
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,495
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Leadership is a potent combination of strategy and character. But if you must be without one, be without the strategy. Anon
It doesn't take a hero to order men into battle. It takes a hero to be one of those men who goes into battle. Anon
General Norman Schwarzkopf's Eleven Commandments for Managers
You must have clear goals. - You must be able to articulate them clearly to others.
Give yourself a clear agenda. - Every morning write the five most important things to accomplish that day, and get those five done.
Let people know where they stand.
What's broken, fix now. - Don't put it off. Problems that aren't dealt with only lead to more problems.
No repainting the flagpole. - Make sure all the work your people are doing is essential to the organization.
Set high standards. - People won't generally perform above your expectations, so it's important to expect a lot.
Lay the concept out, but let your people execute it. - Tell them in the clearest terms what you want done, but let them suggest the best way to do it.
People come to work to succeed. - So don't operate on the principle that if they aren't watched and supervised, they'll bungle up the job.
Never lie. - Ever.
When in charge, take command. - Some leaders who feel they don't have adequate information put off deciding to do anything at all. The best policy is to decide, monitor the results, and change course if it's necessary.
Do what's right. - The truth of the matter is that you always know the right thing to do. The hard part is doing it.
If you quote those at a cocktail party you'll probably come across as some sort of military cabbage
BD
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Madrid FIR
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
flower,
Thanks for your advice about working to rule, and working our hours and terms. The trouble is we are so confused by NATS/TUPE/Prospect all telling us different things that we don't know which rules to work to.
Nobody is willing to give us guidance on hours (apart from the overall 50 hrs in 6 days), and we've got two often contradictory sets of T&C's. So, nice idea son, but (like most things here on Monkey Rock) it ain't going to work.
Thanks for your advice about working to rule, and working our hours and terms. The trouble is we are so confused by NATS/TUPE/Prospect all telling us different things that we don't know which rules to work to.
Nobody is willing to give us guidance on hours (apart from the overall 50 hrs in 6 days), and we've got two often contradictory sets of T&C's. So, nice idea son, but (like most things here on Monkey Rock) it ain't going to work.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sunny Warwickshire
Posts: 438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Radarman, if your shift ends at 23:00 then it ends at 23:00, you can close the airport and go home end of story. If traffic is en route to you to arrive after that time then it's just tough and they will have to divert.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: swanlake
Age: 54
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i sympathise with the guy/girls @lxgb, especially when the goalposts are moved to suit management. Somewhere must be a list of contracted hours(Nats seem to be hot on this at the other units) Lacc shifts are based on hours over a year rather than days. yes working 2 hours later than plan is not what anyone expects, and secondly, do your shifts in Gib come under schratco or have they dodged that? 
Worth looking into the smallprint. And as to the contract of employment? it is a legal right and requirement!!! call Hr for a copy, if you not seen one you will be amazed what can be hidden within.(sometimes to your benefit)
Worth looking into the smallprint. And as to the contract of employment? it is a legal right and requirement!!! call Hr for a copy, if you not seen one you will be amazed what can be hidden within.(sometimes to your benefit)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Home
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just as a point of interest... NATS are actually making next to **** all money from the contract. They do protest that the belt must remain very tight due to such tiny profit margins. However (bit off topic):
1. If it makes any profit at all its doing better than most of their airports
2. It'd make a much bigger profit if they accounted for the actual cost of pension provision, rather than the inflated theoretical cost that they dont pay due to the solid performance of a scheme they want to close.
I know one PCS rep who was appalled at some of the T's & C's out there when we took over. Had hoped things would be improving for you guys by now.
1. If it makes any profit at all its doing better than most of their airports
2. It'd make a much bigger profit if they accounted for the actual cost of pension provision, rather than the inflated theoretical cost that they dont pay due to the solid performance of a scheme they want to close.
I know one PCS rep who was appalled at some of the T's & C's out there when we took over. Had hoped things would be improving for you guys by now.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The land that taste forgot
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
things have just got interesting, one of our atcas has resigned, so keep your eyes open for those lxgb closed due to staff shortage notams!!!!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Gibraltar
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can I send the 1st lxgb closed due to staff shortage notam?!?!?! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!! I've always wanted to send one of those 
I'll even come in on my day off just to send the notam 
I'll even come in on my day off just to send the notam