area or aerodrome
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area or aerodrome
hi guys, i am due to start the college in march, and i wondered if any of you have any views on which is better - area control or aerodrome/approach. I understand you dont really get much choice in where you are stationed, but i am looking for viewpoints in terms of job satisfaction, which is more technical, which is more intense, where you can interact more with your colleagues outside of work etc. coz at the moment, i seem to be leaning more to aerodrome, but from speaking to people i seem to get the impression most would prefer area. I visited Manchester last summer with an ATCO that a work colleague of mine knew, and so experienced both area control (which i found quite amazing) and also approach, which i also though i would enjoy. can you help? coz although i would like a position somewhere a little closer to home, i am more interested in finding a position which is more stimulating etc.
Thanks in advance
Kate
Thanks in advance
Kate
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Katie, you are opening a real can of worms!
I have only ever been valid on area so as far as I'm concerned area is the way to go, pointing aircraft at each other with a closing speed of over 1000knots(over 1000 mph) certainly gets the blood pumping!!
I'm afraid area and aerodrome are completely different and cannot be compared to each other in any way except thet we both use radio to speak to aircraft, that's about the only similarity.
Unless you worked at a very busy airfield, for me, I'd think that once you've seen one plane you've seen them all and the novelty would soon wear off, unless you are a serious spotter and like noting the regs!
Think of this, Swanwick handles over 2.2 million flights every year which of course do not all land at the same airfield.
Of course you may have a decision to make yourself, and whatever you choose you have to make of it what you want! Both tower and area can be stimulating and technical depdending on which sectors you do or which airfield you work at.
People like Gonzo think that tower is the dogs danglies, jokingly of course, but that is all they have ever been valid on so of course it's the best in their minds and also they work at EGLL which is by far busier than any other airfield under NATS umbrella. I've been valid for over ten years in TC and AC and this all I've ever known so think area is the best. TC of course is pretty technical and stimulating, some sectors more than others in AC can be pretty hairy at times.
In short then, tower and area can be all of the things you want it to be and more, it just depends whther you like looking at planes in the flesh or on a radar screen. Also bear in mind that hardly any of the approach functions are located on the airfield they supply. Once manchester moves to scottish I bet the approach function will be done from Prestwick and not under the tower as it is now. Anyone know this answer?
I have only ever been valid on area so as far as I'm concerned area is the way to go, pointing aircraft at each other with a closing speed of over 1000knots(over 1000 mph) certainly gets the blood pumping!!
I'm afraid area and aerodrome are completely different and cannot be compared to each other in any way except thet we both use radio to speak to aircraft, that's about the only similarity.
Unless you worked at a very busy airfield, for me, I'd think that once you've seen one plane you've seen them all and the novelty would soon wear off, unless you are a serious spotter and like noting the regs!
Think of this, Swanwick handles over 2.2 million flights every year which of course do not all land at the same airfield.
Of course you may have a decision to make yourself, and whatever you choose you have to make of it what you want! Both tower and area can be stimulating and technical depdending on which sectors you do or which airfield you work at.
People like Gonzo think that tower is the dogs danglies, jokingly of course, but that is all they have ever been valid on so of course it's the best in their minds and also they work at EGLL which is by far busier than any other airfield under NATS umbrella. I've been valid for over ten years in TC and AC and this all I've ever known so think area is the best. TC of course is pretty technical and stimulating, some sectors more than others in AC can be pretty hairy at times.
In short then, tower and area can be all of the things you want it to be and more, it just depends whther you like looking at planes in the flesh or on a radar screen. Also bear in mind that hardly any of the approach functions are located on the airfield they supply. Once manchester moves to scottish I bet the approach function will be done from Prestwick and not under the tower as it is now. Anyone know this answer?
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hi mancboy, im from manchester myself.anyway,another question, if you validate as an area controller, can you move to aerodrome or vice versa later on? is there much opportunity for this change and is it easily accommodated, or is it pretty tough to do? and i guess as i am not a plane spotting kinda gal, then area might be the way forward for me. and i know this probably sounds maybe a little naive, but how many positions are there actually at Swanwick, because i get told 80% of trainee ATCO's go to Swanwick, however,if you consider the intake, and the number of people which go with each intake, it seems like there must be an awful lot of space in Swanwick? i know that Air traffic in UK is at a high, and increasing, but still, where do all the new trainees and validations go?
cheers kate
cheers kate
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To move from Area to Aerodrome or vice versa is not unknown but is rare and is usually done for 'compassionate' reasons.
Consider the fact that, once you have done the introductory course (or whatever it's called now), you will be trained in different set of skills and disciplines depending on whether you're Aerodrome or Area. So to change disciplines later will mean a return to the College to pass Rating examinations in the relevant task. This can take a while (several months) and this is costly to the company compared to you being a productive ATCO in your current discipline.
There are approximately 450 controllers at Swanwick at present. Natural wastage (retirement etc) generally balances out the input of new controllers at the front end. Of the new controllers who get sent to Swanwick, the target is for 65% of them to reach validation. At present we are on track to make that target.
Of course, Swanwick is not the only area unit. There is also Terminal Control at West Drayton (moving to Swanwick this winter), Manchester Control (moving to Prestwick in 2009 I think), and Scottish Control at Prestwick. So there is plenty of demand for Area controllers.
Aerodromes naturally have smaller numbers so the demand per unit is less. However, at present NATS provide ATC at 14 UK airports, so there is a demand nationally. How does Aberdeen in February sound?
Consider the fact that, once you have done the introductory course (or whatever it's called now), you will be trained in different set of skills and disciplines depending on whether you're Aerodrome or Area. So to change disciplines later will mean a return to the College to pass Rating examinations in the relevant task. This can take a while (several months) and this is costly to the company compared to you being a productive ATCO in your current discipline.
There are approximately 450 controllers at Swanwick at present. Natural wastage (retirement etc) generally balances out the input of new controllers at the front end. Of the new controllers who get sent to Swanwick, the target is for 65% of them to reach validation. At present we are on track to make that target.
Of course, Swanwick is not the only area unit. There is also Terminal Control at West Drayton (moving to Swanwick this winter), Manchester Control (moving to Prestwick in 2009 I think), and Scottish Control at Prestwick. So there is plenty of demand for Area controllers.
Aerodromes naturally have smaller numbers so the demand per unit is less. However, at present NATS provide ATC at 14 UK airports, so there is a demand nationally. How does Aberdeen in February sound?
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Katie, I'm originally from stockport.
In answer for your first question, since the structure at the college changed if you are area only at the college then you will not get an aerodrome rating therefore, unless you pay for yourself then swanwick or scottish will be your places of work. Plus, if you go to Swanwick and validate then why would you want to go to an airfield, other than heathrow, and have to take a pay cut to a lower banding?
It's the same for aerodrome, except that if you paid for yourself you could then try and get a move to an area centre but I don't think it would be worth it.
Positions at Swanwick I am not exactly sure. The ops room is split into five, known as Local area Groups. These are known as North, South, East, West and Central.
North, for example, comprises the Lakes group of sectors and the Daventry group of sectors. Lakes has 3 sectors which are two positions each, Tactical (radar) controller and Planner who is responsible for the flow of traffic into and out of the sector, also known as co-ordination. When it is quiet all 3 postions can be run by just one tactical and one planner with the other staff on a break standing by. When busy the sectors split off so there can be six people working with a minimum of two on a break. Some sectors can comprise of 8 positions when fully open so there can be a lot of postions open at once.
The Lakes sector sits over the north west, over your head, and speaks to traffic generally at fl290 and above. That's 29,000feet and above.
Regards to where trainees go, Gonzo might be able to help us out with figures but the majority will appear at Swanwick first and then bits and bobs to all the other units.
In answer for your first question, since the structure at the college changed if you are area only at the college then you will not get an aerodrome rating therefore, unless you pay for yourself then swanwick or scottish will be your places of work. Plus, if you go to Swanwick and validate then why would you want to go to an airfield, other than heathrow, and have to take a pay cut to a lower banding?
It's the same for aerodrome, except that if you paid for yourself you could then try and get a move to an area centre but I don't think it would be worth it.
Positions at Swanwick I am not exactly sure. The ops room is split into five, known as Local area Groups. These are known as North, South, East, West and Central.
North, for example, comprises the Lakes group of sectors and the Daventry group of sectors. Lakes has 3 sectors which are two positions each, Tactical (radar) controller and Planner who is responsible for the flow of traffic into and out of the sector, also known as co-ordination. When it is quiet all 3 postions can be run by just one tactical and one planner with the other staff on a break standing by. When busy the sectors split off so there can be six people working with a minimum of two on a break. Some sectors can comprise of 8 positions when fully open so there can be a lot of postions open at once.
The Lakes sector sits over the north west, over your head, and speaks to traffic generally at fl290 and above. That's 29,000feet and above.
Regards to where trainees go, Gonzo might be able to help us out with figures but the majority will appear at Swanwick first and then bits and bobs to all the other units.
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"Aberdeen in February"
Loving it actually. My first feb here and it's great. Despite what maybe said about the ice station, i personally believe it is one of the more varied operations within NATS. Getting on to nearly as many movements as Gatwick (although yes they are the majority Heli's, but then operating off multiple runways) always leads to pretty complex situations.
Given the area/aerodrome question, working at an airfield "does it" for me. I currently only work approach, and i love the dynamism of vectoring aircraft around close to the deck, finding sequences, fitting in transitters along with all the other abnormalities, military, SAR, flight checks, medivacs etc etc...
Unfortunately your options on what you actually WANT to do are limited, the companies business need will determine your path.... all very mystic meg
Loving it actually. My first feb here and it's great. Despite what maybe said about the ice station, i personally believe it is one of the more varied operations within NATS. Getting on to nearly as many movements as Gatwick (although yes they are the majority Heli's, but then operating off multiple runways) always leads to pretty complex situations.
Given the area/aerodrome question, working at an airfield "does it" for me. I currently only work approach, and i love the dynamism of vectoring aircraft around close to the deck, finding sequences, fitting in transitters along with all the other abnormalities, military, SAR, flight checks, medivacs etc etc...
Unfortunately your options on what you actually WANT to do are limited, the companies business need will determine your path.... all very mystic meg
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Inverted 81....
I think I've finally worked out who you are...
maybe!
The Ice Station is a great place to work - where else can you work sectors nearly a 1,000 miles apart! We work traffic in a total of 4 FIRs in an area nearly the size of the London FIR.
I think I've finally worked out who you are...
maybe!
The Ice Station is a great place to work - where else can you work sectors nearly a 1,000 miles apart! We work traffic in a total of 4 FIRs in an area nearly the size of the London FIR.
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You rang?
You know, you'll all have to stop referring to me. I might get the idea someone actually reads what I type!
It varies course to course, but figure around 80% going to do area; of those, the majority will get Swanwick.
Yes, I do think my job is the 'dog's danglies'. I would not swap it for radar work. But many (most?) radar ATCOs would say the same. I would love to do both.
Apart from the actual job, I love looking at aeroplanes. I love the feeling of working at an airport (in any role....everyone who has agrees there's a special atmosphere). I love the immediacy of it. I can see the a/c I'm talking to. And no, I'm not a reggie spotter, and neither are the vast majority of my colleagues.
Katie, if you haven't already, go out on a visit or two!
You know, you'll all have to stop referring to me. I might get the idea someone actually reads what I type!
It varies course to course, but figure around 80% going to do area; of those, the majority will get Swanwick.
Yes, I do think my job is the 'dog's danglies'. I would not swap it for radar work. But many (most?) radar ATCOs would say the same. I would love to do both.
Apart from the actual job, I love looking at aeroplanes. I love the feeling of working at an airport (in any role....everyone who has agrees there's a special atmosphere). I love the immediacy of it. I can see the a/c I'm talking to. And no, I'm not a reggie spotter, and neither are the vast majority of my colleagues.
Katie, if you haven't already, go out on a visit or two!
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hi everyone,
thanks for input, its very valuable, i understand that i dont really have a choice as to which route i go down - area or aerodrome, and that doesnt really worry me, i guess i just wanted a bit more insight into the actual functions each carries out more than anything, so i can make a more informed decision when i 'choose' my preferred function (although i do understand i will get placed where business needs are) on the off-chance that i might actually get the position i state as my preference.
gonzo, i visited manchester airport, where i was taken around, sat at the radar screen, listened in on the headphones etc, the ATCO that took me around showed me area and aerodrome at Manc and was extremely helpful (so if you are reading this, you may remember who i am- i visited last august and got in contact with you via a colleague who is your friend, and i thank you very much, as everything you told me was extremely helpful in the interviews, and i guess i have you to thank for me getting a place at the college, i am very grateful!!) and i was there for a good two-three hours, although i obviously couldnt really work out the difference at that stage apart from the fact that in the tower you got a view of the planes and the flights you was in contact with. However, the ATCO that i spoke to, told me that he had firstly worked in aerodrome for the first few years of his career (i think) and had then made the move to area (he has been an ATCO for 19 years or so), so i guess that maybe confused me slightly as to whether you could make the transition from area to aerodrome and vice versa.
Hypothetically, if you did want to make this transition, a few of you have mentioned that you could pay for it. but what sort of fees are you looking at. I basically have a strong desire to know everything there is to know about ATC, and would like to be able to make an informed decision at the college when i choose my discipline.
Mancboy, im not from too far away from your hometown - dukinfield to be precise. there seems to be quite a heavyweight of people from stockport, manc and surrounding areas starting the course in March!
Katie
thanks for input, its very valuable, i understand that i dont really have a choice as to which route i go down - area or aerodrome, and that doesnt really worry me, i guess i just wanted a bit more insight into the actual functions each carries out more than anything, so i can make a more informed decision when i 'choose' my preferred function (although i do understand i will get placed where business needs are) on the off-chance that i might actually get the position i state as my preference.
gonzo, i visited manchester airport, where i was taken around, sat at the radar screen, listened in on the headphones etc, the ATCO that took me around showed me area and aerodrome at Manc and was extremely helpful (so if you are reading this, you may remember who i am- i visited last august and got in contact with you via a colleague who is your friend, and i thank you very much, as everything you told me was extremely helpful in the interviews, and i guess i have you to thank for me getting a place at the college, i am very grateful!!) and i was there for a good two-three hours, although i obviously couldnt really work out the difference at that stage apart from the fact that in the tower you got a view of the planes and the flights you was in contact with. However, the ATCO that i spoke to, told me that he had firstly worked in aerodrome for the first few years of his career (i think) and had then made the move to area (he has been an ATCO for 19 years or so), so i guess that maybe confused me slightly as to whether you could make the transition from area to aerodrome and vice versa.
Hypothetically, if you did want to make this transition, a few of you have mentioned that you could pay for it. but what sort of fees are you looking at. I basically have a strong desire to know everything there is to know about ATC, and would like to be able to make an informed decision at the college when i choose my discipline.
Mancboy, im not from too far away from your hometown - dukinfield to be precise. there seems to be quite a heavyweight of people from stockport, manc and surrounding areas starting the course in March!
Katie
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I basically have a strong desire to know everything there is to know about ATC
Although far too many northerns seem to be around these days! 
As for the fees, I think what was meant was that you could pay to do your own Aerodrome licence if you really were desperate to do that. You would have to resign from NATS first of all of course, and then have no guarantee of a job at the end of it.
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hey gonzo,
thanks for the reply. obviously i wouldnt want to leave NATS after having gone through all the training, i was wondering whether you could transfer within the company thats all! its valuable to know still. by the way, hvae you any hints for things i can do before i start the college, to give me a little more understanding? i have got CAP 493 and 413 that i am trying to read through. But any other little tips would be much appreciated, as i believe from speaking to others on the Jan course that you get examined quite early on.
Cheers
Katie
thanks for the reply. obviously i wouldnt want to leave NATS after having gone through all the training, i was wondering whether you could transfer within the company thats all! its valuable to know still. by the way, hvae you any hints for things i can do before i start the college, to give me a little more understanding? i have got CAP 493 and 413 that i am trying to read through. But any other little tips would be much appreciated, as i believe from speaking to others on the Jan course that you get examined quite early on.
Cheers
Katie
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Yes, as others have said, transferring is done, but very rarely.
And it's even more rare to hear of an area ATCO transferring to an aerodrome. Bear in mind that when you do this (transfer either way), you'll have to go back to the college to do the other rating course, and then train at the new unit. Therefore you're effectively 'useless', not earning the company any money, for over a year. Also, you'll have to wait until there are sufficient staff at your present unit to release you.
As for studying, be careful about studying CAP493 MATS 1 too hard. It is a very dry document where the language has a specific aeronautical meaning. To attempt to learn it without the classroom lessons might confuse you. I would recommend books such as Graham Duke's ABC guide, or even some PPL study books, such as AFE's or Trevor Thom's (google them). Subjects such as Navigation, R/T, Met etc. Also, depending on how much you already know about a/c, a recognition guide such as Jane's would be useful.
And it's even more rare to hear of an area ATCO transferring to an aerodrome. Bear in mind that when you do this (transfer either way), you'll have to go back to the college to do the other rating course, and then train at the new unit. Therefore you're effectively 'useless', not earning the company any money, for over a year. Also, you'll have to wait until there are sufficient staff at your present unit to release you.
As for studying, be careful about studying CAP493 MATS 1 too hard. It is a very dry document where the language has a specific aeronautical meaning. To attempt to learn it without the classroom lessons might confuse you. I would recommend books such as Graham Duke's ABC guide, or even some PPL study books, such as AFE's or Trevor Thom's (google them). Subjects such as Navigation, R/T, Met etc. Also, depending on how much you already know about a/c, a recognition guide such as Jane's would be useful.
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thanks gonzo,
thats certainly very helpful. i had noticed that it is wrote in mostly jargon, but there is quite a good glossary that helps, and so far i havent found it too difficult, but yes it can become confusing and take a while of re-reading notes to grasp the meaning.
janes recognition guide? any further info on that specific one? i have had an email sent of 50 aircraft that have to be learnt at the college, from someone that was at my final interview and has already started, it also has all the other info for these aifcraft, would that suffice?
you are being extremely helpful so thank you
kate
thats certainly very helpful. i had noticed that it is wrote in mostly jargon, but there is quite a good glossary that helps, and so far i havent found it too difficult, but yes it can become confusing and take a while of re-reading notes to grasp the meaning.
janes recognition guide? any further info on that specific one? i have had an email sent of 50 aircraft that have to be learnt at the college, from someone that was at my final interview and has already started, it also has all the other info for these aifcraft, would that suffice?
you are being extremely helpful so thank you
kate
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From what I gather, those streamed to Area end up at Swanwick.
On the Aerodrome stream, are there particular Aerodromes where people are more likely to end up i.e. busier Airports?
I dream of working at LL, that's why I ask.
On the Aerodrome stream, are there particular Aerodromes where people are more likely to end up i.e. busier Airports?
I dream of working at LL, that's why I ask.
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Learn those 50 aircraft katie and you won't go wrong... Remembering if they are big, medium or small and then if they are fast, quite fast or slow should do it! (well it did for me...)
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I would recommend books such as Graham Duke's ABC guide, or even some PPL study books, such as AFE's or Trevor Thom's (google them). Subjects such as Navigation, R/T, Met etc. Also, depending on how much you already know about a/c, a recognition guide such as Jane's would be useful.
Thank you