NATS interview process
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RE: Computer Test Preparation
Angry_Muppet
Had my tests last Friday and despite knowing I'd missed or answered incorrectly a lot, especially on the number sorting and maths questions whilst avoiding collisions tests, I still passed and have my Stage 3 next month.
I'd suggest finding something to help you practice using the number keypad with one hand whilst choosing one of four options with your other hand at the same time. This can be as simple getting a friend to shout out random sequences while you press away without taking your eyes off the screen.
And you're right about the main problem being overcoming your mistakes. Stay relaxed and focussed and concentrate on the current question only, not the next one and certainly not the last one.
Keep your eyes scanning around the screen, I think ATCO's call this 'the flick' and try to prioritise as best you can. I decided I couldn't do most of the maths questions AND keep all the planes flying so I prioritised the planes and only did the maths questions if I got chance.
I'm not saying this is the right way to do it, but a) I passed and b) I guessed keeping the planes flying might be a key skill for an ATCO 
Good Luck, you'll do fine
Had my tests last Friday and despite knowing I'd missed or answered incorrectly a lot, especially on the number sorting and maths questions whilst avoiding collisions tests, I still passed and have my Stage 3 next month.
I'd suggest finding something to help you practice using the number keypad with one hand whilst choosing one of four options with your other hand at the same time. This can be as simple getting a friend to shout out random sequences while you press away without taking your eyes off the screen.
And you're right about the main problem being overcoming your mistakes. Stay relaxed and focussed and concentrate on the current question only, not the next one and certainly not the last one.
Keep your eyes scanning around the screen, I think ATCO's call this 'the flick' and try to prioritise as best you can. I decided I couldn't do most of the maths questions AND keep all the planes flying so I prioritised the planes and only did the maths questions if I got chance. I'm not saying this is the right way to do it, but a) I passed and b) I guessed keeping the planes flying might be a key skill for an ATCO Good Luck, you'll do fine
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Stage 3
Anyone else booked on the 26/09/08 session in Manchester yet?
Thanks to all the posters who suggested stuff for stage 2. Found it very useful, especially the computer test stuff. Was much easier to stay calm and focussed on the task in hand when I knew there were many who struggle with this but still pass, which is exactly what I di, or felt I had done.
If anyone has any insight into stage 3, particularly the interview that would be useful. Been a long time since I had a proper interview.
Thanks to all the posters who suggested stuff for stage 2. Found it very useful, especially the computer test stuff. Was much easier to stay calm and focussed on the task in hand when I knew there were many who struggle with this but still pass, which is exactly what I di, or felt I had done.
If anyone has any insight into stage 3, particularly the interview that would be useful. Been a long time since I had a proper interview.
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Ezy,
Congrats on making it to stage 3. I'm the guy who you (very kindly) gave a lift to Swanwick station.
I'm through, although I can't get time off for a Stage 3 at the moment, so might have to go after two full day shifts and then work nights on the day itself. Not ideal preperation sadly, but I don't have much choice, other than trying to postpone it until October.
Best of luck again.
Congrats on making it to stage 3. I'm the guy who you (very kindly) gave a lift to Swanwick station.
I'm through, although I can't get time off for a Stage 3 at the moment, so might have to go after two full day shifts and then work nights on the day itself. Not ideal preperation sadly, but I don't have much choice, other than trying to postpone it until October.
Best of luck again.
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And smellysnelly, seeing as you now seem to be an expert on 'cubes' 
, please tell us :-
What the hell have 'cubes' got to do with Air Traffic Control?
(Answers in T formation, please) !
, please tell us :-What the hell have 'cubes' got to do with Air Traffic Control?
(Answers in T formation, please) !
Last edited by ZOOKER; 21st Aug 2008 at 22:48.
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Spatial awareness can be defined as understanding the relationships between objects, and the rates of change associated with those two objects, which leads to the ability to realise if they will conflict or not.
So yeah its pretty much essential for ATC. And as regards cubes, you have to work out whether two faces of a net cube will become next to each other when the cube is constructed, so an amount of spatial awareness is required to be able to correctly identify the pattern.
Thus while they have sod all to do with ATC, they do have a bit to do with spatial awareness testing and this is probably the reason the testing company use them to discern who should and who should not go to stage 2.
Hope that answers your burning question zooker... If not I suggest you write a long letter to the testing company themselves
So yeah its pretty much essential for ATC. And as regards cubes, you have to work out whether two faces of a net cube will become next to each other when the cube is constructed, so an amount of spatial awareness is required to be able to correctly identify the pattern.
Thus while they have sod all to do with ATC, they do have a bit to do with spatial awareness testing and this is probably the reason the testing company use them to discern who should and who should not go to stage 2.
Hope that answers your burning question zooker... If not I suggest you write a long letter to the testing company themselves
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Zooker = joker
From an occupational psyc point of view it probably goes a little something like this:
Recruitment is expensive creating a pressure to limit the process, particularly face to face meetings in hotels etc. However, training someone who then fails (a "false positive") is even more expensive creating a pressure for the process to be robust and end up selecting people likely to succeed - so cutting the process down too much would be counter-productive.
So, how to assess what tests predict successful controllers? Probably try out some cost-efficient tests thought to reflect skills important in ATC on current controllers and, if possible, compare their scores with some objective measure of their actual performance as an ATCO. The tests where scores distinguish the better controllers are more likely to be useful.
For monitoring how the tests chosen are then performing in practice, it is likely some assessment is made of test scores against data on whether people then pass / fail college, their scores on different tests at college, and also whether they validate and at how "difficult" a unit.
With enough data, statistical models that predict how likely someone is to e.g. validate anywhere, according to tests scores can be created. So for example, perhaps on average those who scored over 90% on the cubes are 10% more likely to validate than those who scored less than 70% (but still got in). There will be similar predictive coefficients attached to performance on the other tests.
I have faith something like that the above has been done so there is probably data suggesting higher performance on the tests still used, including the cubes, are predictive of higher performance in the job / likelihood of validating. Otherwise there’s no point using them and administering them is an unnecessary cost.
Pinning down what "concept" a test actually measures and what to call that "concept" is always a matter of debate in psychology but the fact that you have to rotate the cubes in your head and also visualise in 3D when doing radar does mean it has "face validity", and the fact that presumably the best radar controllers tend to be good at the cube test suggests "construct validity". But in the end who cares what we call the concept - it's all about definitions and operationalisation anyway. If you define "spatial awareness" as the ability to visualise and rotate objects in 3D before you start, then job done.
Of course, in an ideal world, you’d put all prospective applicants in the college sims / live training for a week as those are more closely related to doing the job, but the reduction in “false positives” wouldn’t be enough to offset the massive cost of doing this. There may be some “false negatives” (people who could do the job but somehow fail on the tests that are used) as result and it’s these people that the selection process is harshest on – obviously difficult to get data on or estimate how many of these there might be. From a recruiter’s point of view, false negatives don’t cost them anything as long as they’re still meeting their head count / tests aren’t too stringent.
Anyway, always helps as an applicant I think, to know where the recruiter is coming from / why they’re doing what they’re doing to you!
From an occupational psyc point of view it probably goes a little something like this:
Recruitment is expensive creating a pressure to limit the process, particularly face to face meetings in hotels etc. However, training someone who then fails (a "false positive") is even more expensive creating a pressure for the process to be robust and end up selecting people likely to succeed - so cutting the process down too much would be counter-productive.
So, how to assess what tests predict successful controllers? Probably try out some cost-efficient tests thought to reflect skills important in ATC on current controllers and, if possible, compare their scores with some objective measure of their actual performance as an ATCO. The tests where scores distinguish the better controllers are more likely to be useful.
For monitoring how the tests chosen are then performing in practice, it is likely some assessment is made of test scores against data on whether people then pass / fail college, their scores on different tests at college, and also whether they validate and at how "difficult" a unit.
With enough data, statistical models that predict how likely someone is to e.g. validate anywhere, according to tests scores can be created. So for example, perhaps on average those who scored over 90% on the cubes are 10% more likely to validate than those who scored less than 70% (but still got in). There will be similar predictive coefficients attached to performance on the other tests.
I have faith something like that the above has been done so there is probably data suggesting higher performance on the tests still used, including the cubes, are predictive of higher performance in the job / likelihood of validating. Otherwise there’s no point using them and administering them is an unnecessary cost.
Pinning down what "concept" a test actually measures and what to call that "concept" is always a matter of debate in psychology but the fact that you have to rotate the cubes in your head and also visualise in 3D when doing radar does mean it has "face validity", and the fact that presumably the best radar controllers tend to be good at the cube test suggests "construct validity". But in the end who cares what we call the concept - it's all about definitions and operationalisation anyway. If you define "spatial awareness" as the ability to visualise and rotate objects in 3D before you start, then job done.
Of course, in an ideal world, you’d put all prospective applicants in the college sims / live training for a week as those are more closely related to doing the job, but the reduction in “false positives” wouldn’t be enough to offset the massive cost of doing this. There may be some “false negatives” (people who could do the job but somehow fail on the tests that are used) as result and it’s these people that the selection process is harshest on – obviously difficult to get data on or estimate how many of these there might be. From a recruiter’s point of view, false negatives don’t cost them anything as long as they’re still meeting their head count / tests aren’t too stringent.
Anyway, always helps as an applicant I think, to know where the recruiter is coming from / why they’re doing what they’re doing to you!
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Zooker, stop stealing precious bandwidth with the same stupid question in the same purple font about the cubes. It's boring, not funny, not clever and only ever people that fail the test seem to whinge about them and question their use.
It's to test spatial awareness, something which is used everyday on the sims at the college... that's why. How many times do you need to be told that? Or does your memory suffer? - A good memory is also a quality useful for ATCOs....
Rant over.
P.S. Well done to those that have recently passed stage 3! The college awaits!
It's to test spatial awareness, something which is used everyday on the sims at the college... that's why. How many times do you need to be told that? Or does your memory suffer? - A good memory is also a quality useful for ATCOs....
Rant over.
P.S. Well done to those that have recently passed stage 3! The college awaits!
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Sandgrounder, thank-you for taking the time to post a fascinating explanation.
Birdie,
a). I am not stealing anything. I pay a quarterly account with my ISP.
b). I have never failed the 'cube test'.
c). Surely the ability of a candidate to travel from home to the selection centre and back again, (safely) is, itself, a demonstration of spatial awareness. As is the ability to interpret the contours on an Ordnance Survey map. This latter skill is also handy for approach radar controllers, concerned as they are, with the small matter of terrain clearance.
d). I, or any of my neighbours, could sign up at my local flying club to do a PPL. This would probably require a level of spatial awareness equal to that of an ATCO. We would not have to sit a 'cube test' to commence training.
e). The popular game of soccer also requires a certain level of spatial awareness. I doubt very much whether 'Goldenballs' (Mr Beckham to you), has ever undertaken (or would even understand) a 'cube test'.
f). The magenta font I often employ is designed to stand out from the (rather mundane) 'bic biro' blue and catsick cream landscape hereabouts. It also looks more 'progressive'.
Last edited by ZOOKER; 23rd Aug 2008 at 07:31.
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what an idiot
hahahahahahaha that is one of the funniest things ive read in ages!! you actually compared doing your ppl to getting an atco license!! you idiot!! haha. then you spouted some complete rrrubbish about approach controllors reading contours on an ordanance survey map!!! oh dear you havent got a clue. dont pretend to know stuff about terrain clearance or atc for that matter. you blatantly dont have a real grasp on what the job of any atco is be it area/approach/aerodrome etc. please god dont tell us youve managed to get through the recruitment process or worst still a valid controller!! cross runways haha thatd be an interesting test of spatial awareness, ''join left hand er i mean right i mean straight in runway 17 i mean 35 no i mean right hand down wind 26 oh your from the south east!!'' haha it be funny as f!! please put some more posts on this thread. maybe you should think about posting on the atc humour thread instead!! haha you idiot
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Can we make an effort to stay on topic please?
Perhaps those who are not wannabe ATCOs or valid ATCOs might wish to leave this thread to those who are, so that one group might answer questions from the other. Banter is all well and good, but lets not get silly and feed the trolls.
Oh, too late.
Some punctuation and grammar wouldn't go amiss, either.
Perhaps those who are not wannabe ATCOs or valid ATCOs might wish to leave this thread to those who are, so that one group might answer questions from the other. Banter is all well and good, but lets not get silly and feed the trolls.
Oh, too late.
Some punctuation and grammar wouldn't go amiss, either.
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punctuation and grammar
those being?
awww come on now Gonzo, shurely you know better than that?
And to keep it on topic, well done to those who have passed stage 3 and are en-route to the college
those being?
awww come on now Gonzo, shurely you know better than that?
And to keep it on topic, well done to those who have passed stage 3 and are en-route to the college
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Hi everyone, Im going to the Stage 1 tests on Thursday 28th in London for the morning session. got to say firstly though what a great bank of info is here, made me slightly less nervous although im still learning all that pdf!
Just wondering if anyone can give a break down of how the session goes and how many of you are at these events/ do you have 1 to 1 discussions or anything?
im so bad at interviews so if i do pass, which hopefully i will do, i also will be the one passed out in the corner!!
any info would be ace, thanks!!
Just wondering if anyone can give a break down of how the session goes and how many of you are at these events/ do you have 1 to 1 discussions or anything?
im so bad at interviews so if i do pass, which hopefully i will do, i also will be the one passed out in the corner!!
any info would be ace, thanks!!
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the day comprises of admin stuff, such as mobility release form signing (stating you agree to work wherever if successful); the aptitude tests; and the chat with the atco.
there is no 1-1 interview in the first stage, its all aptitude testing. there can be anywhere between 10 and 50 of you in one session
best of luck
adrian
there is no 1-1 interview in the first stage, its all aptitude testing. there can be anywhere between 10 and 50 of you in one session
best of luck
adrian
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ah cool, ive just been studying more of the pdf, i will learn it, got a 5 hour train ride up again as normal to london the evening before so will be able to go over everything again then too.
from what ive read there hasnt really been anything much about what to take other than its smart casual, so im assuming, black trousers and shirt will suffice, although first impressions always count imo! also with ID, ive not read anything about this, but i was going to take my driving license and passport just incase anyway and CV just in case. I panic about these damn events!
So when you have the chat with the atco is it done as a group or small groups so you get plenty of time to chat about it and ask questions?
Also anyone else booked in for the morning session? The afternoon one filled up within a couple of days, although i couldnt stand the pain of waiting until 1.30 i dont think!!
from what ive read there hasnt really been anything much about what to take other than its smart casual, so im assuming, black trousers and shirt will suffice, although first impressions always count imo! also with ID, ive not read anything about this, but i was going to take my driving license and passport just incase anyway and CV just in case. I panic about these damn events!
So when you have the chat with the atco is it done as a group or small groups so you get plenty of time to chat about it and ask questions?
Also anyone else booked in for the morning session? The afternoon one filled up within a couple of days, although i couldnt stand the pain of waiting until 1.30 i dont think!!