NATS interview process
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JanathanB,Czechplastic, mcgoo
Thank you for your feedback, i hav checked on 3603 and it is very helpful indeed. i was just asking wat can be done about cubes and diagrammatic questions, as what NATS has provided it is only one page example which is not much of a help either
i had my license about six years ago and it is not valid any more as you knowo one has to do active control and the gap should not be more than six months..
so here is my problem i hav attempted the matching numbers and i hav consistantly achieved 100% , i hav already rehearsed the nats leaflet , now only thing i ask what else should i do
Thank you for your feedback, i hav checked on 3603 and it is very helpful indeed. i was just asking wat can be done about cubes and diagrammatic questions, as what NATS has provided it is only one page example which is not much of a help either
i had my license about six years ago and it is not valid any more as you knowo one has to do active control and the gap should not be more than six months..
so here is my problem i hav attempted the matching numbers and i hav consistantly achieved 100% , i hav already rehearsed the nats leaflet , now only thing i ask what else should i do
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To all Applicants,
As Gonzo has already alluded to ATCOs have to deal with unforeseen events regularly. Doesn't it make sense that NATS test this ability in their candidates? Fair doesn't come into it. NATS are looking for people who have the best chance of completing training and becoming competent controllers.
When posting on here it would be worth remembering that ATCOs who are members of NATS interview pool (i.e. the people sitting across the table from applicants asking the questions) are members of this forum and I am pretty sure HR read it too. Because of this posters should treat the thread as another aspect of the application process. Having kept an eye on this thread it seems that the applicants who have succeedeed are those who have a mature attitude,prepare well and are willing to help others to achieve their dream.
As Gonzo has already alluded to ATCOs have to deal with unforeseen events regularly. Doesn't it make sense that NATS test this ability in their candidates? Fair doesn't come into it. NATS are looking for people who have the best chance of completing training and becoming competent controllers.
When posting on here it would be worth remembering that ATCOs who are members of NATS interview pool (i.e. the people sitting across the table from applicants asking the questions) are members of this forum and I am pretty sure HR read it too. Because of this posters should treat the thread as another aspect of the application process. Having kept an eye on this thread it seems that the applicants who have succeedeed are those who have a mature attitude,prepare well and are willing to help others to achieve their dream.
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ImranKhan,
There isn't anything else that you can do, although from reading the stuff above (I too don't have time to reply to it), you might want to revise mental arithmetic. The diagrammatic test you get is similar to the NATS examples but not exactly the same - ie. different commands, etc - but the principle is the same. If you know how to do them, you'll be fine.
Just relax!
There isn't anything else that you can do, although from reading the stuff above (I too don't have time to reply to it), you might want to revise mental arithmetic. The diagrammatic test you get is similar to the NATS examples but not exactly the same - ie. different commands, etc - but the principle is the same. If you know how to do them, you'll be fine.
Just relax!
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Originally Posted by Wannabeatco
why should somone who wants to be an ATCO learn material never seen before,
and allocate a fare amount of time in order to do so...
to be told sorry you cannot be an ATCO because you couldn't remember how to do somthin you were taught 12 years ago?
Basically: stop moaning and trying to find other people to blame for your shortcomings.
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Wow, heard back from HR the next day after stage 1. (I also did not expect the SDT questions but found that one the easiest in the end - I just did not manage to answer one of the questions where the numbers were not so nice to work with and I didn't have enough time to finish the proper calculation.)
Now the dreaded OPC. Scares me more than anything else in the selection process. Good luck to all fellow applicants.
Now the dreaded OPC. Scares me more than anything else in the selection process. Good luck to all fellow applicants.
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Got the news I have passed stage 1, to my surprise. Chuffed, I have to say. The dreaded personality questionnaire, which Ill complete tomorrow!
Well, I have surprised myself I have to say. Very quick reply from recruitment though, impressive!
Well, I have surprised myself I have to say. Very quick reply from recruitment though, impressive!
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You sad bunch of losers! still on here posting your insults not listening to what people are saying.. same ones who are logged in 24/7...
you guys need to get out more!
You'l be pleased to know... I got through!!
So hope to be meeting you weasels some time soon in the near future touch wood! You might even get a butt kicking if you aren't too careful!
Still sticking to my guns...
Any stage 1 peeps...
Don't learn ALL the material they give you... A few reads is sufficient for the easy multi choice...
Don't practice cubes and diagrams - you can either do them or you can't just make sure you understand what you are required to do with them (in your head)..
And lastly but NOT LEAST - Make sure you practice some of the old long division ... they won't tell you this but there is a whole paper on it! a little revision will stand you in good stead.. enough said.
you guys need to get out more!
You'l be pleased to know... I got through!!
So hope to be meeting you weasels some time soon in the near future touch wood! You might even get a butt kicking if you aren't too careful!
Still sticking to my guns...
Any stage 1 peeps...
Don't learn ALL the material they give you... A few reads is sufficient for the easy multi choice...
Don't practice cubes and diagrams - you can either do them or you can't just make sure you understand what you are required to do with them (in your head)..
And lastly but NOT LEAST - Make sure you practice some of the old long division ... they won't tell you this but there is a whole paper on it! a little revision will stand you in good stead.. enough said.
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You sad bunch of losers! still on here posting your insults
To be honest I think most of the replies to you have been quite polite!
It's kind of pointless me adding to what others have said, but different people will approach the whole thing differently, plus the maths thing sounds to be something that is fairly recent, hence not to much info on it on this thread.
I guess the things they do give you for preparation (the ATC motivation paper, the cubes & diagramming) are given as they are things that are fairly specific to the process and less likely to have been seen elsewhere in life/education, but it doesn't prevent them from setting anything else that might reasonably be expected of the job.
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WannabeATCO
Just a small tip. If you get through the selection process and you bring that attitude to your training, you'll probably need to be looking for a different career.
NATS (and anyone else who employs ATCOs) are looking for people who can think on their feet and deal with everything that gets thrown at them, whether expected or not. You'll also need to get used to living with a management and bureacracy which are not there to make your life easy. You'll certainly be expected to use your own initiative and put in the hard work to get yourself through all the training courses and on the job training. We can't afford to take on people who need molly coddling all the way through.
Just a small tip. If you get through the selection process and you bring that attitude to your training, you'll probably need to be looking for a different career.
NATS (and anyone else who employs ATCOs) are looking for people who can think on their feet and deal with everything that gets thrown at them, whether expected or not. You'll also need to get used to living with a management and bureacracy which are not there to make your life easy. You'll certainly be expected to use your own initiative and put in the hard work to get yourself through all the training courses and on the job training. We can't afford to take on people who need molly coddling all the way through.
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Wannabeatco
I think as always pprune radar sums it up perfectly.
For my two pence worth I think that threads like these give almost too much away. I passed my tests first time round a few years ago. When I applied I'd never heard of pprune and just did a bit of research off my own back but didn't really know what to expect.
The bottom line is, if you can do the job the you will get in and validate eventually, if you can't you won't - simple as that.
This job is great- I love every day. What makes it great is the sheer profesionalism of my colleagues and the pilots (most of them anyway
).
Trainees with a bad attitude will not validate at a unit- rightly or wrongly they will get chopped- you may want to bear that in mind.
To all other applicants - good luck
I think as always pprune radar sums it up perfectly.
For my two pence worth I think that threads like these give almost too much away. I passed my tests first time round a few years ago. When I applied I'd never heard of pprune and just did a bit of research off my own back but didn't really know what to expect.
The bottom line is, if you can do the job the you will get in and validate eventually, if you can't you won't - simple as that.
This job is great- I love every day. What makes it great is the sheer profesionalism of my colleagues and the pilots (most of them anyway
).Trainees with a bad attitude will not validate at a unit- rightly or wrongly they will get chopped- you may want to bear that in mind.
To all other applicants - good luck
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Anyhoo, on a lighter note.
I have my stage 2 next week and although everyone says there is little you can do to prepare I plan to look over cube netting and basic checking skills this weekend.
Is this going to be enough? (not that I have a lot of choice with the amount of overtime im being made to do at the moment)
I have my stage 2 next week and although everyone says there is little you can do to prepare I plan to look over cube netting and basic checking skills this weekend.
Is this going to be enough? (not that I have a lot of choice with the amount of overtime im being made to do at the moment)
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Can everyone climb down from their moral high horse please.
WannabeAtco makes a perfectly valid point in his original post- if HR want people to prep for stage 1 then at least point them in the RIGHT direction- don't tell them to do one thing and then test them on another. its very very unprofessional in an industry that prides itself on the highest standards of profeesionalism. There is an argument that throwing unexpected stuff at you is what ATCO is all about- BUT lets be honest, its just HR not being as accurate as it could be- just about every single communication i have received up to stage 3 has been factually incorrect or misleading!
Furthermore, what is said on internet forums can often be misconstrued, as such it is accepted wisdom to give posts the benefit of the doubt- having read WannbeAtco initial posts he seemed to be making a valid complaint, which some people, who seem to be suffering from inflated ego problems themselves, took humbrage to and shot him down in flames.
There is one rule on the internet- if you won't say it to someone's face then don't say it all. I suggest everyone takes a long look at what they have written recently and apply this rule to their posts.
It is also of some surprise to see the competitiveness that often comes across on this forum- ATC strikes me as far from competitive- you are ONLY competing with yourself. NATS will clearly take anyone they can get, and so the only person you have to beat is yourself. Personally i am all up for helping as many people as possible- in any way possible. I'd love to see everyone on here employed in such a rewarding job as ATCO!
Lets be frank, those who are validated have the right to be self-assured, and the usual level of maturity and self confidence required by the job seems to suggest that they don't ram their successes down peoples throats. However those that have passed stage 2 and 3 often come across as being "better" than others. Frankly none of the testing processes matter a damn until you validate.
Anyway enough sermonising from me, i suggest everyone climbs out of their entrenched positions, treat each other with respect, and gets on with learning how to be the best ATCO possible.
hatemyjob- there is truly nothing you can do to practice stage 2- you can either pass or you can't its as simple as that- i did write a long email to someone about stage 2 and i will see if i can find a copy and paste it on here.
Thanks to the college person who posted on here earlier- mucho helpful for an insight into college life. For some of us who are willing to give up lucrative careers to become ATCOs this whole process is a hell of a risk so its nice to know exactly what you are letting yourself in for!
WannabeAtco makes a perfectly valid point in his original post- if HR want people to prep for stage 1 then at least point them in the RIGHT direction- don't tell them to do one thing and then test them on another. its very very unprofessional in an industry that prides itself on the highest standards of profeesionalism. There is an argument that throwing unexpected stuff at you is what ATCO is all about- BUT lets be honest, its just HR not being as accurate as it could be- just about every single communication i have received up to stage 3 has been factually incorrect or misleading!
Furthermore, what is said on internet forums can often be misconstrued, as such it is accepted wisdom to give posts the benefit of the doubt- having read WannbeAtco initial posts he seemed to be making a valid complaint, which some people, who seem to be suffering from inflated ego problems themselves, took humbrage to and shot him down in flames.
There is one rule on the internet- if you won't say it to someone's face then don't say it all. I suggest everyone takes a long look at what they have written recently and apply this rule to their posts.
It is also of some surprise to see the competitiveness that often comes across on this forum- ATC strikes me as far from competitive- you are ONLY competing with yourself. NATS will clearly take anyone they can get, and so the only person you have to beat is yourself. Personally i am all up for helping as many people as possible- in any way possible. I'd love to see everyone on here employed in such a rewarding job as ATCO!
Lets be frank, those who are validated have the right to be self-assured, and the usual level of maturity and self confidence required by the job seems to suggest that they don't ram their successes down peoples throats. However those that have passed stage 2 and 3 often come across as being "better" than others. Frankly none of the testing processes matter a damn until you validate.
Anyway enough sermonising from me, i suggest everyone climbs out of their entrenched positions, treat each other with respect, and gets on with learning how to be the best ATCO possible.
hatemyjob- there is truly nothing you can do to practice stage 2- you can either pass or you can't its as simple as that- i did write a long email to someone about stage 2 and i will see if i can find a copy and paste it on here.
Thanks to the college person who posted on here earlier- mucho helpful for an insight into college life. For some of us who are willing to give up lucrative careers to become ATCOs this whole process is a hell of a risk so its nice to know exactly what you are letting yourself in for!
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my stage 2 email to someone:
Hey Nick,
thanks- really surprised and pleased to hear back so fast.
a few things off thet op of my head- the day is very very intense- not particularly stressful but you have to be highly mentally alert all day long- i found pro plus to be veryvery useful when i started to flag in the early afternoon.
The HR woman didn't know what she was takling about and told us that the first few tests were partcice seessions only- basically beleive what the computer says- if it says you have a few practices and then assessment then beelive the computer- you are assessed from very early in the day.
the wiki descritpionn of the FEAST tests is about as good as you are going to get really- they don't make a lot of sense when you read them, but perfect sense after you have left! Me describing them to you will probably only stress you out when in fact they are perfectly easy to inderstand, everything is explained and you get to practice!
you will spend around 7 hours solid in front of a pc being tested. yo have to do both the FEAST tests and the original NATs test. the feast test are as decribed- the nats tests are a little different- they love sorting tests- where they give you a coloured shape (one of 4 shapes and 4 colours), and 4 options at the bottom to match the shape 2- so you might be matching red squares to either the colour red or the shape square- they then give you instructions- such as match red sqaures to circles. They then give you a second shape to keep an eye on- when the first shape matches the second (as in the game snap- you have to press the match button). They come roughly once every second or so.
a NATS test not shown anywhere is a computer screen with inbound aircraft heading towards each other numbered 1-9 on random intercepts- you have to remove the minimum numbered aircraft to prevent any collisions- you have about 1 second to identify the correct plane. at the same time you have to answer mental arithmetic questions at the bottom- it sounds hard, and it is, but keep your head, if you mess up, forget it and move on.
Cubes! uhhhh didn't think i had one right, but can't have done too badly. they were ridiculously hard for me- although one chap found them easy (but found a test that i found easy hard!). The fact they only use arrows pointing random directions make its much harder.
Do NOT expect to do well- i'm not a stupid chap by any means (and i thought everyone there was pretty bright), but i really really struggled as did everyone else- no one found it easy. so don't be disheartened and do the best you can.
one piece of advice i woudl says is this- just sit back and enjoy them and treat them like computer games. You are only competiting with yourself (as in they will take everyone good enough) and i truly beleive there is nothing you can do to help yourself before the tests.
on at least 3 tests i saw guuys finishing early on the computer tests even though they had 20 mins left of time- yo do NOT have to finish when you get to the last question on some of them- you can often go back through the questions and check them- i strongly recommend you do this- don't just get to the end and stop- use all the time available to flick through all your questions, if possible make a mental note about which ones you are unhappy about. You will know if you can go back because there will be a back button at the bottom of the screen- i was nervous that going back would erase the answers to question i had already completed but it didn't.
3 tests involve learning a set of logical rules before you start- iirc you can go back and check the rules at anuy point during the test, but it is time consuming. Spend as long as possible learning these rules- they will make your life much much easier if you have them straight in your head- some of them are quite similar so make sure you have them factually correct.
The last test of the day are strip tests with lots of flight information that you have to process- you spend about an hour learning what you have to do. Use all the time you need, go back to bits you can't remember, learn the following aircraft codes (they aren't essential but will make your life easier), AFR, AFL, AZA, CRX, DLH, SAS, SWR, FIN, LTU there were a few others that i can't remember right now but they aer given to you.
Also:
GE - Geneva
LY - Lyons
DI - Dijon
MU - Munich
MI - Milan
BA - Basel
ZH- Zurich
can't think of anything else right now- its tough, but enjoyable if you let it- relax and it gets a lot lot easier. Don't worry if others finish before you- and if someone says its easy then either they're lying or they've failed (or they're a genius but i reckon there were some damn clever people in my bit and no one said it was easy!)
HTH
Jim
Hey Nick,
thanks- really surprised and pleased to hear back so fast.
a few things off thet op of my head- the day is very very intense- not particularly stressful but you have to be highly mentally alert all day long- i found pro plus to be veryvery useful when i started to flag in the early afternoon.
The HR woman didn't know what she was takling about and told us that the first few tests were partcice seessions only- basically beleive what the computer says- if it says you have a few practices and then assessment then beelive the computer- you are assessed from very early in the day.
the wiki descritpionn of the FEAST tests is about as good as you are going to get really- they don't make a lot of sense when you read them, but perfect sense after you have left! Me describing them to you will probably only stress you out when in fact they are perfectly easy to inderstand, everything is explained and you get to practice!
you will spend around 7 hours solid in front of a pc being tested. yo have to do both the FEAST tests and the original NATs test. the feast test are as decribed- the nats tests are a little different- they love sorting tests- where they give you a coloured shape (one of 4 shapes and 4 colours), and 4 options at the bottom to match the shape 2- so you might be matching red squares to either the colour red or the shape square- they then give you instructions- such as match red sqaures to circles. They then give you a second shape to keep an eye on- when the first shape matches the second (as in the game snap- you have to press the match button). They come roughly once every second or so.
a NATS test not shown anywhere is a computer screen with inbound aircraft heading towards each other numbered 1-9 on random intercepts- you have to remove the minimum numbered aircraft to prevent any collisions- you have about 1 second to identify the correct plane. at the same time you have to answer mental arithmetic questions at the bottom- it sounds hard, and it is, but keep your head, if you mess up, forget it and move on.
Cubes! uhhhh didn't think i had one right, but can't have done too badly. they were ridiculously hard for me- although one chap found them easy (but found a test that i found easy hard!). The fact they only use arrows pointing random directions make its much harder.
Do NOT expect to do well- i'm not a stupid chap by any means (and i thought everyone there was pretty bright), but i really really struggled as did everyone else- no one found it easy. so don't be disheartened and do the best you can.
one piece of advice i woudl says is this- just sit back and enjoy them and treat them like computer games. You are only competiting with yourself (as in they will take everyone good enough) and i truly beleive there is nothing you can do to help yourself before the tests.
on at least 3 tests i saw guuys finishing early on the computer tests even though they had 20 mins left of time- yo do NOT have to finish when you get to the last question on some of them- you can often go back through the questions and check them- i strongly recommend you do this- don't just get to the end and stop- use all the time available to flick through all your questions, if possible make a mental note about which ones you are unhappy about. You will know if you can go back because there will be a back button at the bottom of the screen- i was nervous that going back would erase the answers to question i had already completed but it didn't.
3 tests involve learning a set of logical rules before you start- iirc you can go back and check the rules at anuy point during the test, but it is time consuming. Spend as long as possible learning these rules- they will make your life much much easier if you have them straight in your head- some of them are quite similar so make sure you have them factually correct.
The last test of the day are strip tests with lots of flight information that you have to process- you spend about an hour learning what you have to do. Use all the time you need, go back to bits you can't remember, learn the following aircraft codes (they aren't essential but will make your life easier), AFR, AFL, AZA, CRX, DLH, SAS, SWR, FIN, LTU there were a few others that i can't remember right now but they aer given to you.
Also:
GE - Geneva
LY - Lyons
DI - Dijon
MU - Munich
MI - Milan
BA - Basel
ZH- Zurich
can't think of anything else right now- its tough, but enjoyable if you let it- relax and it gets a lot lot easier. Don't worry if others finish before you- and if someone says its easy then either they're lying or they've failed (or they're a genius but i reckon there were some damn clever people in my bit and no one said it was easy!)
HTH
Jim
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Just sat the personality questionnaire, quite long I have to say. I was honest and tried to stay as honest and consistent throughout, but its very difficult when you are torn between two options, and cant decide which you think is more like yourself...
Just wondering how long it took for them to email back with a result?
Just wondering how long it took for them to email back with a result?