New TATCO course structure
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Southampton
New TATCO course structure
Hi All,
Just heard some info in passing that I was hoping someone could shed some light on.
I'm about to start my application for the 3rd time (failed initial day 1st time, and failed the final day last time) and I've just found out some info relating to moving forward. I'm optimistic as my feedback said I was a near miss and I know what I need to work on [fingers crossed].
Now here is the interesting part - FYI the final day of the interview process has been split in to 2 1/2 day interviews to relieve some of the pressure (and help build the tension even more
) but more interestingly is the new course structure...
The new course as of the September 07 course at Hurn is only 13 weeks long. After that the candidate gets posted straight to the unit. Apparently I'm told the motivation behind this was as a solution to the unit's unhappiness with the quality of people coming from the college - so now they have taken it upon themselves to complete the training of the potential ATCO’s.
Is there any more info about this floating around, such as what is covered etc. (or more importantly what isn’t covered)? Also, how much prep is going in to this? I think it's a good idea from what little I know, but how much effort are the units going to invest on the in-house training of recruits from such a low level? While I want to get in to an ATCO role as soon as possible, would it be wise to postpone my start date so as not to get on the initial 'guinea-pig' course?
How does this affect the hours and pay? With the previous model, trainees went on to a slightly higher pay grade once they left the college - does that still apply meaning pay will go up sooner, or have they adjusted the rules to keep the candidates on the basic pay even while at the unit.
Does this mean that the trainee starts OJTI a lot sooner, or does the course continue as previously, just at a different location per se?
Thanks in advance for any info.
B
Just heard some info in passing that I was hoping someone could shed some light on.
I'm about to start my application for the 3rd time (failed initial day 1st time, and failed the final day last time) and I've just found out some info relating to moving forward. I'm optimistic as my feedback said I was a near miss and I know what I need to work on [fingers crossed].
Now here is the interesting part - FYI the final day of the interview process has been split in to 2 1/2 day interviews to relieve some of the pressure (and help build the tension even more
) but more interestingly is the new course structure...The new course as of the September 07 course at Hurn is only 13 weeks long. After that the candidate gets posted straight to the unit. Apparently I'm told the motivation behind this was as a solution to the unit's unhappiness with the quality of people coming from the college - so now they have taken it upon themselves to complete the training of the potential ATCO’s.
Is there any more info about this floating around, such as what is covered etc. (or more importantly what isn’t covered)? Also, how much prep is going in to this? I think it's a good idea from what little I know, but how much effort are the units going to invest on the in-house training of recruits from such a low level? While I want to get in to an ATCO role as soon as possible, would it be wise to postpone my start date so as not to get on the initial 'guinea-pig' course?
How does this affect the hours and pay? With the previous model, trainees went on to a slightly higher pay grade once they left the college - does that still apply meaning pay will go up sooner, or have they adjusted the rules to keep the candidates on the basic pay even while at the unit.
Does this mean that the trainee starts OJTI a lot sooner, or does the course continue as previously, just at a different location per se?
Thanks in advance for any info.
B
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,432
Likes: 33
From: LHR/EGLL
As regards a new course structure, I haven't heard any of this.
However, there is an intention to move more of the area training out to the units. Bear in mind that after Nov 07 when Terminal Control moves down to Swanwick, that unit will 'consume' (if that's an appropriate word!) up to 80% (if not more) of the college output. It has been decided that it makes more sense for those trainees to do most of their training using 'real' airspace, using the same radar suites they'll be using when training live etc etc.
If this turns out to be true, I'd expect it to be the Basic course that every trainee undertakes (theory and some radar skills), and perhaps a 'foundation' area course. This is all my own speculation, of course.
As for Aerodrome or Approach Radar, I don't think any unit is in the position of being able to teach the rating course, either now or in the near future.
As regards 'deferring', bear in mind that you'd need a very good reason to persuade HR to keep a place for you, and that NATS might very well go and change the trainee T&Cs while you wait to start your deferred entry. (Please note, I'm not saying they would at all, just that as far as I'm aware they are entitled to do so....The last time trainee pay was reduced, one or two trainees who deferred started on the first course on the lower salary, but would have started on the last course on the higher salary if they'd joined straight away).
However, there is an intention to move more of the area training out to the units. Bear in mind that after Nov 07 when Terminal Control moves down to Swanwick, that unit will 'consume' (if that's an appropriate word!) up to 80% (if not more) of the college output. It has been decided that it makes more sense for those trainees to do most of their training using 'real' airspace, using the same radar suites they'll be using when training live etc etc.
If this turns out to be true, I'd expect it to be the Basic course that every trainee undertakes (theory and some radar skills), and perhaps a 'foundation' area course. This is all my own speculation, of course.
As for Aerodrome or Approach Radar, I don't think any unit is in the position of being able to teach the rating course, either now or in the near future.
As regards 'deferring', bear in mind that you'd need a very good reason to persuade HR to keep a place for you, and that NATS might very well go and change the trainee T&Cs while you wait to start your deferred entry. (Please note, I'm not saying they would at all, just that as far as I'm aware they are entitled to do so....The last time trainee pay was reduced, one or two trainees who deferred started on the first course on the lower salary, but would have started on the last course on the higher salary if they'd joined straight away).
Last edited by Gonzo; 22nd January 2007 at 20:16.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,432
Likes: 33
From: LHR/EGLL
Can't imagine it will be much less than it is now. The idea (which if the above information is correct is a lot more than an idea now) is that the area courses which are now taught at the college, will be taught at Swanwick. I'll leave it up to you area guys to debate the pros and cons of such a move.
Anyone thought about car parking?
Anyone thought about car parking?
More than just an ATCO
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 1
From: Up someone's nose
FWIW Maastricht UAC, being the main customer for IANS in Luxembourg has been doing it this way for years.
After completing the initial training in Luxembourg, Maastricht specific training continues at the UAC, initially in the classroom, later in the simulator with coaching provided by controllers not instructors, terminating in the Ops. Room itself, so no, they wouldn't be plugging in with no previous R/T experience.
Furthermore, as they are actually at the unit, integration becomes easier. if they should find themselves with nothing to do they can normally observe on the sectors where they will be training. An extra benefit is that as they are already living in the area the cultural shock for many of moving to a foreign country is reduced and is not so much of a factor when they eventually enter the Ops. Room.
After completing the initial training in Luxembourg, Maastricht specific training continues at the UAC, initially in the classroom, later in the simulator with coaching provided by controllers not instructors, terminating in the Ops. Room itself, so no, they wouldn't be plugging in with no previous R/T experience.
Furthermore, as they are actually at the unit, integration becomes easier. if they should find themselves with nothing to do they can normally observe on the sectors where they will be training. An extra benefit is that as they are already living in the area the cultural shock for many of moving to a foreign country is reduced and is not so much of a factor when they eventually enter the Ops. Room.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
From: By the Sea-side
Jeez, chill Chev.
Airports will be doing all their training on simulators at the NATS [NSL] Centre of Excellence which is located at..... HURN.
Area boys and girls will do Basic Course at Hurn followed by an initial radar module at Hurn, then poke off to Prestwick or Swanwick to complete their rating training. Anyone going NSL and the occasional TC Approach will stay at Hurn and do about the same as they do now before they pitch up in the towers on your licenses.
To answer the original question, training will take about the same time as before, just at a different location for Area.
Airports will be doing all their training on simulators at the NATS [NSL] Centre of Excellence which is located at..... HURN.
Area boys and girls will do Basic Course at Hurn followed by an initial radar module at Hurn, then poke off to Prestwick or Swanwick to complete their rating training. Anyone going NSL and the occasional TC Approach will stay at Hurn and do about the same as they do now before they pitch up in the towers on your licenses.
To answer the original question, training will take about the same time as before, just at a different location for Area.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
I wish there was a bit more clarity in terms of postings and what job you'll actually end up doing.
From the outside seems a bit random and it's not well explained anyway.
Ultimately we are all doing the selections because we want the job, but given that a radar screen will look just about the same everywhere, the actual location of your workplace could make a difference to your life.
Yet I gather it's all very unclear 'till you're well into the course, am I right ?
Does it mean that if I were interested in an aerodrome, or to Scottish, I should be encouraged to deliberately fail ?
From the outside seems a bit random and it's not well explained anyway.
Ultimately we are all doing the selections because we want the job, but given that a radar screen will look just about the same everywhere, the actual location of your workplace could make a difference to your life.
Yet I gather it's all very unclear 'till you're well into the course, am I right ?
Does it mean that if I were interested in an aerodrome, or to Scottish, I should be encouraged to deliberately fail ?
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 106
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From: QS, HH, FF
One of the first 'formal' things that you have to do is fill a form that basically says you are willing to be posted anywhere, and further more you won't complain when you are posted there. So if you are dead set on only being posted to one particular location, maybe the job isn't for you?
I say there boy
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,065
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From: Somewhere
Basically, NATS is going to spend a fortune on you, with no guarantee that you will ever earn the company a penny in return. It's likely that your training will cost the company a large fraction of a million quid once you're valid.
So your side of the bargain is that you have to let NATS choose where they send you and what discipline you do. If it's still the same as when I was at college, you do get some input in the process, but ultimately NATS has requirements to fill and so management gets the ultimate say.
It's harsh, but ultimately fair when you think about it in these terms.
Edit> I can't believe how many times I managed to use the word "ultimate" in that post
So your side of the bargain is that you have to let NATS choose where they send you and what discipline you do. If it's still the same as when I was at college, you do get some input in the process, but ultimately NATS has requirements to fill and so management gets the ultimate say.
It's harsh, but ultimately fair when you think about it in these terms.
Edit> I can't believe how many times I managed to use the word "ultimate" in that post
Last edited by foghorn; 5th February 2007 at 19:26.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 300
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From: Southampton
"Does it mean that if I were interested in an aerodrome, or to Scottish, I should be encouraged to deliberately fail ?"
In the past there may have been some justification for believing this to be the case. It certainly created alot of bad feeling at LATCC where failure was perceived to have been rewarded with a prefered posting. However, second chances are far rarer these days and Trainees no longer have an Aerodrome rating to fall back on.
In the past there may have been some justification for believing this to be the case. It certainly created alot of bad feeling at LATCC where failure was perceived to have been rewarded with a prefered posting. However, second chances are far rarer these days and Trainees no longer have an Aerodrome rating to fall back on.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: England
Failing the course would not do you any favours. These days you are streamed into aerodrome, approach or area (I believe in the past you would have been trained in multiple disciplines). To do any of the three disciplines you still need to pass the basic course to the same standard. As has been mentioned, you do get the chance to state your preference of discipline, but it is not guaranteed if it does not fit with the business requirements. If your choice is to be an area controller, you will probably get your wish as the majority of trainees are destined for area. Aerodrome usually has fewer places than trainees who want to do it, so some will inevitably be disappointed. And the company will of course post you to where they need you. This is the deal that you sign up to right from the start, which NATS make very clear.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 283
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From: .
With the choices of discipline, you get to choose on a form if you would like Aerodrome or Approach. If you don't fill in this form, then you go to area...If you do fill in this form, it is still highly likely you will go to area 
Luckily, I filled in this form, and got what I asked for!
As for the numbers, on my course there were at least twice as many people requesting Aerodrome or Approach, than there were numbers available...So if you choose an option on the form, don't bet on getting it. I would still think in the back of your mind, "I'm going to Swanwick"...If you get what you wanted, its a bonus!
DF
Luckily, I filled in this form, and got what I asked for!
As for the numbers, on my course there were at least twice as many people requesting Aerodrome or Approach, than there were numbers available...So if you choose an option on the form, don't bet on getting it. I would still think in the back of your mind, "I'm going to Swanwick"...If you get what you wanted, its a bonus!
DF
