Electronic Flight Progress Boards, Your Experience?
Thread Starter
Electronic Flight Progress Boards, Your Experience?
Greetings. Looks fairly certain we're going to get these, starting in the towers and then (once any problems/preferences are ironed, presumably) in the centre. A search found this thread http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ctronic+strips
which started to answer some questions, but I have a few more.
The system we are teed up to get is by Frequentis, I believe it's this one: http://www.frequentis.com/Internet/A...martStrips.htm
Has anybody any experience of working with this system? Any advantages/disadvantages over paper? Do you think safety or efficiency has been improved by using them?
To tell the truth, I'm pretty keen on new technology, and tend to get the hang of it reasonably quickly. I've also been around long enough to be suspicious of change for change's sake.(I also like having paper strips from a tactile - cues point of view, and always keep a piece of paper handy.) From what I've been told, and the brochures seen, this appears to be a pretty good system, one that I hope won't remove attention from out the window, where a lot of it should be.
Your thoughts/feedback welcome.
which started to answer some questions, but I have a few more.
The system we are teed up to get is by Frequentis, I believe it's this one: http://www.frequentis.com/Internet/A...martStrips.htm
Has anybody any experience of working with this system? Any advantages/disadvantages over paper? Do you think safety or efficiency has been improved by using them?
To tell the truth, I'm pretty keen on new technology, and tend to get the hang of it reasonably quickly. I've also been around long enough to be suspicious of change for change's sake.(I also like having paper strips from a tactile - cues point of view, and always keep a piece of paper handy.) From what I've been told, and the brochures seen, this appears to be a pretty good system, one that I hope won't remove attention from out the window, where a lot of it should be.
Your thoughts/feedback welcome.
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Markjoy,
Australian civilian ATC has not used paper flight progress strips since 1999 (except in towers).
Works well for us, and as a controller who worked with strips, shrimp boats, unlabelled radar displays, and procedural strip displays, I'll think our electronic strips displays we use with our Thomson-CSF Eurocat are a million times better.
Australian civilian ATC has not used paper flight progress strips since 1999 (except in towers).
Works well for us, and as a controller who worked with strips, shrimp boats, unlabelled radar displays, and procedural strip displays, I'll think our electronic strips displays we use with our Thomson-CSF Eurocat are a million times better.
aceatco, retired
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We've had the Nav Canada system at Luton Tower since November and I think it's great. Suits our operation well. Everyone took to it well, even those who were a little dubious at first. Lots of training and practice helped.
Thread Starter
Thanks DirtyPierre and vintage ATCO.
Sounds somewhat promising. (I'm starting to get a little vintage myself...)
Anyone out there who uses Frequentis strip boards, or indeed, any
Frequentis gear? (ATIS, Met etc)
Sounds somewhat promising. (I'm starting to get a little vintage myself...)
Anyone out there who uses Frequentis strip boards, or indeed, any
Frequentis gear? (ATIS, Met etc)
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I used the Frequentis Voice Switch system when I worked at Liverpool. Worked well, reliable, versatile. A million times more advanced than the old Stratus comms panel (static shocks, buzzing and humming plus a daily failure).
They're fitting a Frequentis comms system in the tower here at CYQT later in the year to replace our 1982 piece of junk.
As for EFPB's, the Nav Canada system has been in the tower here since December 2005 (I arrived in Feb 2006) and everybody here swears by it (and at it from time to time
). In all honesty I couldn't conceive of ever using paper strips again. This is an airport where you can be sitting here scratching your arse with your feet on the desk reading Maxim then 15 mins later have 5 in the cct, IFR's from all directions, Water Bombers calling up for priority departures off the cross runway etc and all the flight data is managed by poking the touch screen with a few keyboard inputs. It's quicker and easier to manage and there's no straining to read your fellow ATCO's childlike handwriting during the hand-off!!
It's only failed once in the last year and we had to revert to paper strips for a few hours. However having subconciously dismissed the idea of ever using paper strips again nobody could remember the standard strip marking! We just muddled through and said a quiet prayer of thanks when it came back on.
They're fitting a Frequentis comms system in the tower here at CYQT later in the year to replace our 1982 piece of junk.
As for EFPB's, the Nav Canada system has been in the tower here since December 2005 (I arrived in Feb 2006) and everybody here swears by it (and at it from time to time
). In all honesty I couldn't conceive of ever using paper strips again. This is an airport where you can be sitting here scratching your arse with your feet on the desk reading Maxim then 15 mins later have 5 in the cct, IFR's from all directions, Water Bombers calling up for priority departures off the cross runway etc and all the flight data is managed by poking the touch screen with a few keyboard inputs. It's quicker and easier to manage and there's no straining to read your fellow ATCO's childlike handwriting during the hand-off!!It's only failed once in the last year and we had to revert to paper strips for a few hours. However having subconciously dismissed the idea of ever using paper strips again nobody could remember the standard strip marking! We just muddled through and said a quiet prayer of thanks when it came back on.
Last edited by squibbler; 14th Jan 2007 at 21:02.
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I got to play with the Frequentis EFPS system at the NATCA (Thats N as in Norwegian) annual conference last year. Looks like a very capable system. The way it was possible to model after any current layout was impressive, and the HMI was great IMHO. I could not find a singe thing you can not do with it, that I can do today with the paper strips, movement or marking wise.
I still think you will be a bit more head down to begin with, since you cannot move a strip from one bay to another just by feel as you can with paper strips. (I'm twr/app btw)
Even the crusty antique members of the union present was able to learn the operation instantly.
There is no chance in hell I'm gonna get to work with it, but you can dream cant you?
I still think you will be a bit more head down to begin with, since you cannot move a strip from one bay to another just by feel as you can with paper strips. (I'm twr/app btw)
Even the crusty antique members of the union present was able to learn the operation instantly.
There is no chance in hell I'm gonna get to work with it, but you can dream cant you?
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we are just in process of switching over to estrips. they are nice, require change of working culture though. I would suggest you go directly to stripless environment instead. estrips are mixed fruit to my experience. full stripless enviro is much better solution (estrips are still there, but in very different shape)
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I would suggest you go directly to stripless environment instead. estrips are mixed fruit to my experience. full stripless enviro is much better solution
Do you work in a centre or Tower? (I'm thinking centre, based on some of your posts)
Any idea how full stripless would go when integrating up to 50% VFR into the mix?
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The Oceanic Control Centre in Prestwick (Shanwick) has been using electronic strip displays for over 20 years. They have recently moved over to a new full colour display (previously the display was green text on a black background) jointly developed by NATS and NAV Canada. Perhaps the Oceanic controllers could give you some advice based on years of experience.
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yep, I was everything from tower to app/acc radar now. Estrips retain some working habits from paper strips, which to my experience become an obstacle in performance of atco. If one maintains focus on radar screen all the time and can perform all functions which were on paper/estrips directly in label, one can be much more efficient.
Ohcirrej
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It's only failed once in the last year and we had to revert to paper strips for a few hours. However having subconciously dismissed the idea of ever using paper strips again nobody could remember the standard strip marking! We just muddled through and said a quiet prayer of thanks when it came back on.
I'm on the other side of Mr Squibbler's EXCDS system in the Winnipeg/Tri Terminal speciality and having come from a NATS background, it took a little getting used to not having paper strips, especially throwing a strip to the guy sitting next to you when you transfer control.
There are certainly limitations to electronic systems (what happens when it fails being a major one), but as we are experiencing here in Winnipeg Center at the moment, there are major considerations with respect to how changes/upgrades to the radar system will affect the "electronics". The Canadian CAATS system has required a considerable re-engineering of the EXCDS system to ensure the information the Controller requires is being displayed. There is also the danger of a system requiring the controller to "feed the beast" so to speak......just how does the new information get into the system. Nav Canada's EXCDS uses touch screen and mouse to physically update the strip "on the board", but there are also mouse input requirements to update route/altitude changes on the radar screen, which can become a little labour intensive and certainly adds to heads down time and windows covering radar information
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Electronic strips in APP/ACC?
Hi guys and gals!
Has anybody of you experience in using electronic flight progress strips in a complex APP/ACC environment? In our sectors we have a lot of military traffic (IFR-pickups) and VFR-flights without flightplan requesting to cross airspace C. Scheduled traffic is very complex sometimes with 95% of it vertical movements. I imagine having to work the whole thing with electronic strips might be very difficult for several reasons. Since rumours say we will get a new paperless system in two years IŽd like to hear your opinion about it.
Has anybody of you experience in using electronic flight progress strips in a complex APP/ACC environment? In our sectors we have a lot of military traffic (IFR-pickups) and VFR-flights without flightplan requesting to cross airspace C. Scheduled traffic is very complex sometimes with 95% of it vertical movements. I imagine having to work the whole thing with electronic strips might be very difficult for several reasons. Since rumours say we will get a new paperless system in two years IŽd like to hear your opinion about it.
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Having worked a paper strip and an electronic strip system in en-root, you wouldn't go back to paper. I haven't experienced a failure yet (my colleagues have!). Pop-ups are a problem (ifr or vfr) depending on how busy you are.
I don't like knocking back clearances, but if everybody understands the limitations (Pilots mainly) you can make it work quite well.
I don't like knocking back clearances, but if everybody understands the limitations (Pilots mainly) you can make it work quite well.
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Prestwick OACC, "Shanwick OCA"
The 'old' Flight Data Processing System (FDPS):
Not the whole story (image) as there is another side to simply the 'electronic strip bay', that being there is an additional screen, (or part of a screen in the new kit), where you can update, copy and manipulate the strips to reflect/input changes in flight profile. However, as with most things, the change from FDPS to the new kit (SAATS) was a bit tricky, despite being the same 'tool' essentially but with a few more 'lights' and 'bells'.
So long as your training procedures are geared to get you all sufficiently up to speed and the EFPS system is reliable, I don't think any of you 'paper-boys' need worry too much. As PDB stated, EFPS has been used at the Prestwick OACC for nearly 20 years and although Oceanic is a unique ATC environment, the old kit certainly earned its spurs and despite some quirks became fairly popular with those who worked with it. The kit essentially did what was sufficient for our needs at the time, while the new kit has given us the ability to do a bit more and develop things over the coming years.
Provided what you get in the way of a system enables you to continue to do your job effectively, then no problem - except getting your head around the technology of course
(Now where did I put my copy of 'SAATS for Dummies'?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanwick_Oceanic_Control
The 'old' Flight Data Processing System (FDPS):
Not the whole story (image) as there is another side to simply the 'electronic strip bay', that being there is an additional screen, (or part of a screen in the new kit), where you can update, copy and manipulate the strips to reflect/input changes in flight profile. However, as with most things, the change from FDPS to the new kit (SAATS) was a bit tricky, despite being the same 'tool' essentially but with a few more 'lights' and 'bells'.
So long as your training procedures are geared to get you all sufficiently up to speed and the EFPS system is reliable, I don't think any of you 'paper-boys' need worry too much. As PDB stated, EFPS has been used at the Prestwick OACC for nearly 20 years and although Oceanic is a unique ATC environment, the old kit certainly earned its spurs and despite some quirks became fairly popular with those who worked with it. The kit essentially did what was sufficient for our needs at the time, while the new kit has given us the ability to do a bit more and develop things over the coming years.
Provided what you get in the way of a system enables you to continue to do your job effectively, then no problem - except getting your head around the technology of course
(Now where did I put my copy of 'SAATS for Dummies'?)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanwick_Oceanic_Control
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Though when the fellas say we use electronic flight strips in Oz, we need to be clear. Nearly all interaction now is done through the displayed label on the screen. I hardly touch the flight strip now.
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Wa having a discussion about electronic strips with a colleague today and we were a bit sceptical of how they would work in a busy rapid-fire TMA environment (i.e TC). When it hits the fan, you barely have time to write on the strips themselves, let alone faff about inputing headings, levels etc.
I'll admit I have never used the system so cant really go slagging it off but it does give food for thought.
Any other TMA controllers from around the globe use electronic strips? Does it work??
Spamcan
I'll admit I have never used the system so cant really go slagging it off but it does give food for thought.
Any other TMA controllers from around the globe use electronic strips? Does it work??
Spamcan
EFPS are great when they work...but when they don't
En-route environment excellent but as previously mentioned pop up VFR/IFR freecalls etc can be a nightmare.
We have the Frequentis comms panel...absolutely excellent piece of kit, stable, clear and very intuitive. Get it
En-route environment excellent but as previously mentioned pop up VFR/IFR freecalls etc can be a nightmare.
We have the Frequentis comms panel...absolutely excellent piece of kit, stable, clear and very intuitive. Get it
