Question for NATS employees involved with SAMOS

[throw a dyce]

Originally Posted by chiglet

t a d,
The "Cloud Monitor" aka Cloud BASE Recorder does NOT affect the IRVR.
IF there is ANY loss of visibuility due to "Precipitation" eg, rain, snow etc Then that "may" affect the IRVR.
SAMOS "Reports" [what IT "sees"]
Viz between two "fixed" points [fairly close together]Cloud A vertical "static" beam. [If it sees "Nowt", it reports CAVOK]
Precipitation.....NOW there is the "bugbear".....
At Manch, the "sensors" are 2km from the "observer" [The ATSA]. Said ATSA has to accept or decline wx info, when "presented" for a METAR.
SAMOS "reports" 170/04 3000BR NRC 04/03 1004
"MY" obs 170/04 CAVOK 04/03 1004
As atsoo said..It's NOT very good
watp,iktch

Well blowing snow does affect the IRVR system with false reading,so if the Cloud Base Recorder had a covering on it would it do the same? i.e if it can't see anything it thinks it's fog.
I never said the CBR and IRVR system were linked.I know that Manch doesn't see a lot of snow,but unfortunately we do.(and keep operating )

[atsatoo]

Originally Posted by throw a dyce

If there is snow on the cloud monitors,will that not affect their measurements.It can muck up the IRVR.It will probably think it's sky obscured in fog.
Wasn't there some backhanders dished out to the power that be for installing Samos.Don't think the Atsas saw much of it.

I know nothing about backhanders.
Bonuses however ........!!

General feeling was/is that the ATSA's are paid too much anyway so no, we never saw a penny. Not for taking on Samos, not for changing our rostered shift pattern, not for doing night shifts, the list goes on. Over recent years the ATSA's role here has changed drastically, the flight clearance position was 'merged' with TWR, APP and OFFSHORE and staff O.R. cut accordingly. We have accepted a raft of 'changes' for no extra incentives at all, bar those agreed nationaly.

PCS were no real help (to us, management loved em!), correct me if I'm wrong, but they said, "yes its rubbish, but its coming, it'll save you're job, and you've all been on night pay for years anyway so suck it up and do it".
Yes, that sounds about right!

They were not prepared to accept (and neither is anyone else in NATS from what i can gather), that Aberdeen is a busy unit, with more movements than people imagine, growing all the time, with the added complication of 3 helicopter companies that fly their asses off every day, and change 75% of their details 90% of the time, honestly, you've got to see it to believe it.

Of course we also give ATSA support to Sumburgh and Anglia radar, as well as Aberdeen offshore. The ATSA is busy here, often too busy with the addition of Samos, but hey ho..the Union knows best..

So no, no bonuses for us, but we are busy, tired and hacked off, oh, and we are all now holders of a 'restricted met observers certificate', for what its worth!!!

Any takers on why we need to do hourly metars at night when there's no traffic,......Why airlines/heli's can fly when the Samos has been on Auto all night and no live weather for a TAF has been provided????

too

[Giles Wembley-Hogg]

To answer atsatoo's question about what forecasts are required before flying, until the last ammendment of my company's rule book we could depart for an airfield even if no forecast was available as long as a forecast from a nearby airfield was available. (I think the rule went on to say something about there having to be a good chance that the weather conditions would be the same at both locations).

I can't find that rule in the current incarnation of the rules, but there is now a rule stating that we MUST have a forecast of the anticipated landing conditions at the destination.

I seem to remeber doing many early trips for one Scottish airport and having to use the forecast for somewhere nearby. It would appear that this technique is no longer available to us.

G W-H

[Dizzee Rascal]

I'm not a NATS employee so am I allowed to post on this thread?

I will anyway!

Originally Posted by Giles Wembley-Hogg

I can't find that rule in the current incarnation of the rules, but there is now a rule stating that we MUST have a forecast of the anticipated landing conditions at the destination.

I've just found this in the ANO

Pre-flight action by commander of aircraft
52The commander of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom shall take all reasonable steps to satisfy himself before the aircraft takes off:
(a) that the flight can safely be made, taking into account the latest information available as to the route and aerodrome to be used, the weather reports and forecasts available and any alternative course of action which can be adopted in case the flight cannot be completed as planned;