test failure
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test failure
After a second unsuccessful attempt at the initial selection tests, I have just received my rejection email from NATS following my recent attendance in London on the 8th December 06. While trying to remain positive about the situation and draw from the experience I am finding it increasingly difficult not to take a rather cynical view on the process. I can accept that the aim is to arrive at a pool of individuals statistically more likely to succeed as controllers due to the high costs of training but this must be balanced against the shortage of controllers and the highly suitable candidates (for which I make no assumption I am among) that the NATS computers surely eliminate from the process at a very early and perhaps premature stage. In my own case I do not accept that interpreting a series of cubes on paper is an accurate measure of my spatial reasoning ability. I know people who have no hand eye coordination, are unable to prioritise, cannot manoeuvre any sort of vehicle and are perplexed by even the simplest of numerical problems – I am not one of these people. For fear of being shot down for drawing a very poor analogy I enjoy solving practical problems, work with numbers all day at work and can reverse a car with a trailer up a hill and round a corner! I further don’t accept that the personality questionnaire accurately reflects my character after I have had to pigeon hole myself into one of the available responses and labelled myself a certain type of person. NATS might as well give prospective candidates a play station game to practice and see how good they can get at it on the test day. Whatever may have been deduced from my performance at the tests I can solve problems, have a flexible approach, am reasonably numerical, am an effective communicator and am spatially aware. I am also motivated towards a career in aviation, willing to travel UK wide and more than willing to work in the pay cut while training. If indeed I do not possess the aptitude to do the job then of course I need to know this but let not such a large proportion of the decision be made by these tests. All I want is the chance to communicate my enthusiasm for the job to a person at an interview before the line gets drawn for another 12 months. Why can’t the HR team get working a bit harder and actually do a greater proportion of screening face to face even if only for the more borderline cases?
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The HR team work around the clock, they not only work with the many many applicants, they are also working closely with all the current trainees.
In my opinion the tests were a fairly simple hurdle, which all the information regarding them is readily available right here on pprune, so making mock tests for yourself is no problem.
In summary I believe if you want it enough, put in many hours of practice, the first stage is a gimme.
In my opinion the tests were a fairly simple hurdle, which all the information regarding them is readily available right here on pprune, so making mock tests for yourself is no problem.
In summary I believe if you want it enough, put in many hours of practice, the first stage is a gimme.
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Unlucky.... but no need to get a chip on your shoulder about a process which is used (in varying but similar formats), by ATC agencies and Military flying and ATC selection boards around the world.
A process that has been evolved and continues to be.
It is not perfect, but no stage of training with NATS or any other agency is. I know of people that in my opinion should have passed the college, have not, I also know of people that in my opinion that have validated and hold a licence, that should not.
To be fair though, you say it is your second attempt. I seriously doubt anyone that has had 2 failed attempts is capable, and they are certainly not worth the cost of the training risk. It's a harsh world, but ultimately, an ATCO is responsible for the lives of thousands of people daily.
If you are so sure you can do it; get a £6k loan and pay yourself through an aerodrome course.
A process that has been evolved and continues to be.
It is not perfect, but no stage of training with NATS or any other agency is. I know of people that in my opinion should have passed the college, have not, I also know of people that in my opinion that have validated and hold a licence, that should not.
To be fair though, you say it is your second attempt. I seriously doubt anyone that has had 2 failed attempts is capable, and they are certainly not worth the cost of the training risk. It's a harsh world, but ultimately, an ATCO is responsible for the lives of thousands of people daily.
If you are so sure you can do it; get a £6k loan and pay yourself through an aerodrome course.
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Hi there.... where do you get an AD course (ICAO Standard/maybe ESARR5)for 6K? In Germany, AFAIK, you've to pay (after testing/assessment) 65.000 EUR.....
Last edited by spike_scramble; 12th Dec 2006 at 15:45. Reason: price
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Although the tests have been changed over the years , the ones that have constantly been in use are the cubes and personality questions - at least for the last 18 years.
Did you get feedback ? Are you so sure that you were borderline ?
I believe the personality questions are designed to show what sort of personality type you are - as much as you may not like it, we all pretty much fit into one catagory or another .
louby
(who can't reverse a car up hill with a trailer and around a corner - but has been deemed to be spatially aware
)
Did you get feedback ? Are you so sure that you were borderline ?
I believe the personality questions are designed to show what sort of personality type you are - as much as you may not like it, we all pretty much fit into one catagory or another .
louby
(who can't reverse a car up hill with a trailer and around a corner - but has been deemed to be spatially aware
)
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Maybe the process is fair and a good indicator of suitability, maybe I am indeed not up to the job and have been rightly eliminated from selection and I agree my analogy was a poor one! I also stated quite clearly that I did not know if I was a borderline case or not, the point I was making was that in my opinion potentially good and motivated applicants are precluded from interview prematurely. For the record I also take on board that the HR staff are mostly helpful. Rant over.
Good luck in your application if you are not already through Louby.
Good luck in your application if you are not already through Louby.
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But that is the whole point of these tests - to eliminate those deemed unsuitable, prior to interview. Unfortunately , enthusiasm and a willingness to relocate are not the main requirements to gain an ATC license.
I would suggest that you get back in touch with HR to see where you went wrong.
Thanks for the good wishes - er - but I've held a license for a number of years
louby
I would suggest that you get back in touch with HR to see where you went wrong.
Thanks for the good wishes - er - but I've held a license for a number of years
louby
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...maybe I am indeed not up to the job...
Two experiences I had training people on a busy procedural sector destroyed my faith in my training ability for quite a while. One just used to freeze up when the pressure went on, exuding the smell of fresh **** when he was melting down. He could answer any quiz question, he could tell you 4 different ways of doing something AFTER he'd fouled it up, he could do any task if there was no pressure, but load him up & I'd have to edge away again from the "smell of death" & he would freeze at every decision.
The other just couldn't get a reliable scan together and never got out of the simulator. He was flash & smooth & appeared competent, but every sim run he would weld something or miss coord.
In both cases I'd identified the guy's "roadblock", but was unable to coach them through it. Maybe it was just not in their nature to overcome the problem.
Hope you find your niche.
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thanks for the reply and encouragement, its good to get a different perspective like this. There is obviously some sort of ingredient people either have or they don't - you validated operating controllers should all have some sort of cerebral scan to see what you all have in common then prospective applicants screened to see if that part of their brain is switched on.......
DJMBOSS,
I am sorry that you were unsuccessful. I found your post, considered and eloquent and not a rant at all. Don't give up! You sound like you are determined and committed. Whislt ATC requires a certain amount of aptitude, without dedication, that aptitude counts for nothing. If you are fond of travel, why not try the military? Both the RN and the RAF are short of controllers as well and the type of control they provide is subtly different.
If you need any more information there are several threads on here or you can feel free to PM me. You may well fail the RAF tests as well but, at least then you will know that it wasn't just the NATS HR staff.
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/server/s...changeNav/3533
http://www.rafcareers.com/jobs/airtrafficcontroller.cfm
I am sorry that you were unsuccessful. I found your post, considered and eloquent and not a rant at all. Don't give up! You sound like you are determined and committed. Whislt ATC requires a certain amount of aptitude, without dedication, that aptitude counts for nothing. If you are fond of travel, why not try the military? Both the RN and the RAF are short of controllers as well and the type of control they provide is subtly different.
If you need any more information there are several threads on here or you can feel free to PM me. You may well fail the RAF tests as well but, at least then you will know that it wasn't just the NATS HR staff.
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/server/s...changeNav/3533
http://www.rafcareers.com/jobs/airtrafficcontroller.cfm
Last edited by Widger; 14th Dec 2006 at 12:40. Reason: links
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Thanks Widger, my views may have been unpopular with most but they weren't meant to offend and I'm pleased that you have taken the thread in a positive light without assuming it was 100% attributable to bad attitude/non suitability! I certainly haven't been put off and if anything am more determined to have another go and I def wouldn't rule out other channels of ATC like you suggest. I will pm soon.
