Airservices Australia Global Search for ATCs
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Enough's enough!
Listen guys.
I appreciate that some of you have axes to grind with ASA, and they may well not be the best company in the world to work for; but I am equally sure they are not the worst either. There have been threads on here saying pretty much the same thing about SERCo and NATS too, and don't forget what Reagan did to the US controllers.
Those overseas controllers who are intending to make the move have already resigned from their current positions. Their homes are on the market. Their spouses have resigned from their jobs, and not least they, their families and their friends are very sad at the prospect of saying goodbye, possibly for a long time.
This is a HUGELY stressful and scary time for all those involved.
Now PLEASE let's actually have some support for those making this move. Tell them what's great about living in Australia.
Tell them what you love about your work.
I know there must be a good side, or intelligent people wouldn't be working there, would they?
Sorry to rant, guys, but at this late stage let's show some support for fellow controllers, eh?
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If any individual makes their final decision based on the internet, they deserve anything that comes their way. Nothing but the truth being spoken by these posters.
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Fair enough, Quokka, but the "truth" about the working-conditions in any particular company tend to come from a very personal perspective, and those who've taken the ASA shilling are beyond the PNR now. No turning back.
But even if the doomsayers do turn out to be right, perhaps a large influx of "Rest-of-the-World" experience might help to change things. Who knows?
Anyway, at the end of the day we work to live. Not the other way around. I hope!
ap
But even if the doomsayers do turn out to be right, perhaps a large influx of "Rest-of-the-World" experience might help to change things. Who knows?
Anyway, at the end of the day we work to live. Not the other way around. I hope!
ap
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Have to agree with AP on this, truth is good but I think it sounds very one sided, there have to be some good points to being employed by AsA or they wouldn't be facing staff shortages due to retirement, surly these guys would have left way before retirement if things were honestly as bad as is being made out, I presently work for a company that battles to keep staff after the age of 35ish, loosing guys to retirement is an exceptional occurance, I have only seen one retirement at our field in the 10+ years I've worked there.
I am aware some people may see the global search as a flop etc, but give us a chance to arrive before you come to a final conclusion, we may actually help the present situation you have with staff shortages and overtime issues.
And here's a touchy subject, who AsA selected is not our fault, we also thought they would take locals rather than foreigners and were over the moon when we received the phone call, this is a beef that needs to be taken up with management prehaps they had their reasons.
Things are chaotic at the moment, but our family is still very excited to be coming and if anyone has anything encouraging to say I can't wait to hear it, as for the rest I'll wait to come to my own conclusions. To the rest of you on the move, good luck chins up and can't wait to go out for our first drink in a Melbourne pub/bar.
22
I am aware some people may see the global search as a flop etc, but give us a chance to arrive before you come to a final conclusion, we may actually help the present situation you have with staff shortages and overtime issues.
And here's a touchy subject, who AsA selected is not our fault, we also thought they would take locals rather than foreigners and were over the moon when we received the phone call, this is a beef that needs to be taken up with management prehaps they had their reasons.
Things are chaotic at the moment, but our family is still very excited to be coming and if anyone has anything encouraging to say I can't wait to hear it, as for the rest I'll wait to come to my own conclusions. To the rest of you on the move, good luck chins up and can't wait to go out for our first drink in a Melbourne pub/bar.
22
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To those who have answered the call
to all and sundry
AP, 22follow and others who are contemplating taking the ASA carrot, or those who have as AP put it passed there PNR, there is no turning back.
Oz is the best bloody place in the world to live, I can assure you of that. I have worked ATC in at least 3 different countries around the world, both northern and southern hemisphere. We do have the best climate, and where in the world can you get be snow skiing one day and the next be in the tropics sipping margeritas, maybe the US (but who really wants to live in that place..yes I know the yanks love it..no offence to our american friends..but we are not that much on the hit list)!!lol
the positives, if you are coming from Europe, SA, UK or North america, coming to Oz will all mean something different to you. It is (and I mean this in all sincerity) the best bloody place to live in the world. My family's best friends are south african (yes I can here the comments from here my old seffrican colleagues, please
) and they cant get over just how safe it is over here, and for that reason alone they will take any ****e that may come there way. I can totally understand this and if it was me would probably do the same irrespective of how many negative things were said here or otherplaces. But, beware after a period of time, ASA's way of handling things will start to affect you...look at it from this point, you spend 8 hours a day there dealing with the **** they throw at you (just like and i mean exactly like Nats, Serco, ATNS, NAVCAN and others) it will start to wear you down. The secret is to always remember WHY you came, even when you get the blue passport.
the same if one came from Euope or North america, the winters are harsh, summers are short, well not here in Oz...the seasons just meander into each other, absolutely perfect you may say, and it is, you can still get out to the beach if you want in winter, dont have to stay indoors all the time, there is a huge cultural change when you first come here.
If you go to brisbane, the summers will be really hard on you if you are from a generally colder climate, but from SA probably not too much different. In Melbourne a bit more like the UK and a damp sort of cold in winter, so for you UK people much of the same.
The negatives:: for most of you your family will not be here after about 12 months that wears a bit thin, I can assure you of that from experience. Believe it or not the great weather we have may actually create stress after a few seasons, especially if you are used to really sudden changes of seasons, ours really just flow into each other...we dont get snow, or sand storms you can golf and fish all year round.
With you new guys they see you are brand new to the system and it will take some time before you work out what is going on.
I am a little pissed off they have hired nearly all OS people and left a shed load of locals on the shelf, but that is the way it is. Russel wanted Oz expats but he left it to his managers beneath who decided to protect their jobs rather than carry out what the CEO really wanted. Getting locals back as cheap as possible. This is typical of how the organisation works. same reason why ASA will always be shortstaffed, as the FLM and higher managers get a bonus for keeping in their defined budgets, they want the money, they dont give a F**K about you.
we all have our reasons for making a move, crikey I must have gone through at least 4 times now and you never really know until you go. But as per QUOKKA and TOBZALP there is nothing but truth being spoken here.
AP, congrats on making the move. I was one of the dozen or so ozzie expats who were informed we were not suitable, I mean WTF??? I know for a fact we were put through a completely different application process. we were not looked at from our experience and where we had been, what we had acheived and how much experience we would bring back, and in fact how relatively painless and cheap our retraining would be. No, they actually had more senior managers jobs (those who thought their cushy little jobs in CB, ML and Bn) would have been potentially threatened by more seasoned and worldly controllers coming back into the system from overseas, with real world experience, and yes they were probably right, that may have happened. But, that is the fact as to why none of us were rehired, believe it or not but fact.
you also have to understand why some of us say what we have been saying, to see some of us who have managed to be rehired, at salary levels way below what you guys were hired at, it is a bitter pill to swallow would you not agree.
anyway, for all of you and also 22follow, I know the emotions you are going through now (again from experience), the excitement of the move, the sadness of leaving family and friends, what will it be like there, will we be happy, will it work out, there are so many emotions I could go on for ever. I do wish you good luck and even though I dont live in YMML or YBBN (you better get used to new ICAO designators), i will make the effort to get down there in a year or so to have a chat and a beer with you to see what your thoughts are then. I do wish you good luck. Make the most of it.
Good luck, dont expect too much from the locals. hopefully will have a beer with you in BN or ML one day and PM me to keep in touch on how are managing and how it turns out.
Cheers
AP, 22follow and others who are contemplating taking the ASA carrot, or those who have as AP put it passed there PNR, there is no turning back.
Oz is the best bloody place in the world to live, I can assure you of that. I have worked ATC in at least 3 different countries around the world, both northern and southern hemisphere. We do have the best climate, and where in the world can you get be snow skiing one day and the next be in the tropics sipping margeritas, maybe the US (but who really wants to live in that place..yes I know the yanks love it..no offence to our american friends..but we are not that much on the hit list)!!lol
the positives, if you are coming from Europe, SA, UK or North america, coming to Oz will all mean something different to you. It is (and I mean this in all sincerity) the best bloody place to live in the world. My family's best friends are south african (yes I can here the comments from here my old seffrican colleagues, please
) and they cant get over just how safe it is over here, and for that reason alone they will take any ****e that may come there way. I can totally understand this and if it was me would probably do the same irrespective of how many negative things were said here or otherplaces. But, beware after a period of time, ASA's way of handling things will start to affect you...look at it from this point, you spend 8 hours a day there dealing with the **** they throw at you (just like and i mean exactly like Nats, Serco, ATNS, NAVCAN and others) it will start to wear you down. The secret is to always remember WHY you came, even when you get the blue passport.the same if one came from Euope or North america, the winters are harsh, summers are short, well not here in Oz...the seasons just meander into each other, absolutely perfect you may say, and it is, you can still get out to the beach if you want in winter, dont have to stay indoors all the time, there is a huge cultural change when you first come here.
If you go to brisbane, the summers will be really hard on you if you are from a generally colder climate, but from SA probably not too much different. In Melbourne a bit more like the UK and a damp sort of cold in winter, so for you UK people much of the same.
The negatives:: for most of you your family will not be here after about 12 months that wears a bit thin, I can assure you of that from experience. Believe it or not the great weather we have may actually create stress after a few seasons, especially if you are used to really sudden changes of seasons, ours really just flow into each other...we dont get snow, or sand storms you can golf and fish all year round.
With you new guys they see you are brand new to the system and it will take some time before you work out what is going on.
I am a little pissed off they have hired nearly all OS people and left a shed load of locals on the shelf, but that is the way it is. Russel wanted Oz expats but he left it to his managers beneath who decided to protect their jobs rather than carry out what the CEO really wanted. Getting locals back as cheap as possible. This is typical of how the organisation works. same reason why ASA will always be shortstaffed, as the FLM and higher managers get a bonus for keeping in their defined budgets, they want the money, they dont give a F**K about you.
we all have our reasons for making a move, crikey I must have gone through at least 4 times now and you never really know until you go. But as per QUOKKA and TOBZALP there is nothing but truth being spoken here.
AP, congrats on making the move. I was one of the dozen or so ozzie expats who were informed we were not suitable, I mean WTF??? I know for a fact we were put through a completely different application process. we were not looked at from our experience and where we had been, what we had acheived and how much experience we would bring back, and in fact how relatively painless and cheap our retraining would be. No, they actually had more senior managers jobs (those who thought their cushy little jobs in CB, ML and Bn) would have been potentially threatened by more seasoned and worldly controllers coming back into the system from overseas, with real world experience, and yes they were probably right, that may have happened. But, that is the fact as to why none of us were rehired, believe it or not but fact.
you also have to understand why some of us say what we have been saying, to see some of us who have managed to be rehired, at salary levels way below what you guys were hired at, it is a bitter pill to swallow would you not agree.
anyway, for all of you and also 22follow, I know the emotions you are going through now (again from experience), the excitement of the move, the sadness of leaving family and friends, what will it be like there, will we be happy, will it work out, there are so many emotions I could go on for ever. I do wish you good luck and even though I dont live in YMML or YBBN (you better get used to new ICAO designators), i will make the effort to get down there in a year or so to have a chat and a beer with you to see what your thoughts are then. I do wish you good luck. Make the most of it.
Good luck, dont expect too much from the locals. hopefully will have a beer with you in BN or ML one day and PM me to keep in touch on how are managing and how it turns out.
Cheers
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22Follow, just to be clear, there is no ill will towards the guys coming in from this exercise by the current staff at all. Don't worry aboyt that one for a second as the coldness in this thread is towards AsAa not the hirees. Anyone who acts or thinks otherwise is a ******** and not worth your time in the first place.
edit. No wonder South Africans come here. I just read there were 19000 murders in the country last year (42 million people). Australia at 20 million had just under 300.
so double it for 600.
edit. No wonder South Africans come here. I just read there were 19000 murders in the country last year (42 million people). Australia at 20 million had just under 300.
so double it for 600.
Last edited by tobzalp; 12th Aug 2007 at 10:47.
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So PMS,
I am a little confused - out of all the companies you have worked for and places you have worked (Middle East, Canada, Australia....) I cant remember where else you have been driven out of - sorry left...
Which is the Best?
TT
I am a little confused - out of all the companies you have worked for and places you have worked (Middle East, Canada, Australia....) I cant remember where else you have been driven out of - sorry left...
Which is the Best?
TT
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poor Bart, being confused
TT
yes we all know you (the poor bart like thing) are a little confused often, its just part of your character.
Quokka,
tks for the support mate, much appreciated. and yes to quote quokka, how many overseas endorsements have you held or even attempted? Please speak up we cant hear you.
In fact how many endorsements both o/s and oz have you held?
Not attempting to brag here but since the question has been indirectly put......mine to date include 5 o/s endorsements...2 app radar and 3 area incl appr radar (incl attempts), 22 oz endorsements (incl attempts) ...5 app radar, 4twr and smc, 13 area incl syd arr n & s..bn arr ....
so bart my friend please enlighten us
Oh BTW all left of my own accord my friend, better get your facts right, still waiting for your reply.
pot calling kettle,
over and out
yes we all know you (the poor bart like thing) are a little confused often, its just part of your character.
Quokka,
tks for the support mate, much appreciated. and yes to quote quokka, how many overseas endorsements have you held or even attempted? Please speak up we cant hear you.
In fact how many endorsements both o/s and oz have you held?
Not attempting to brag here but since the question has been indirectly put......mine to date include 5 o/s endorsements...2 app radar and 3 area incl appr radar (incl attempts), 22 oz endorsements (incl attempts) ...5 app radar, 4twr and smc, 13 area incl syd arr n & s..bn arr ....
so bart my friend please enlighten us
Oh BTW all left of my own accord my friend, better get your facts right, still waiting for your reply.
pot calling kettle,
over and out
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Hey Quokka!
Leave it alone me old mate...TT used to work to the north of here...in 2 of the Euro countries.....one of them was even regularly quite busy!
Let the old folk snipe at each other....
Let the old folk snipe at each other....