NavCanada Question
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NavCanada Question
Hi, I'm interested in moving to Toronto to take advantage of the seemingly better than British life over there but am a little confused over the pay for experienced controllers at Toronto centre. The website says C$69000 whilst training, then a bonus is paid dependent on which centre you work at. Can any Canadian controller advise me on what that bonus actually is so I can work out how much in total will be paid? Also how much leave do you get per year?
I'd ask people at work but I'd rather not let people know I'm thinking about it.
I'd ask people at work but I'd rather not let people know I'm thinking about it.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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The bonus is called the OFP..operational facility premium. It only gets paid once you validate so you start off on the training pay only.
The pay whilst training is around $80 000 and when you validate you then get the OFP of around $20 000 plus. These are rough guesses (I'd have to look at my staff handbook. There is always overtime available in YYZ so you can earn more when it is available.
The OFPs vary from centre to centre. I believe Toronto to be the highest has it has the greatest traffic volume. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
The pay whilst training is around $80 000 and when you validate you then get the OFP of around $20 000 plus. These are rough guesses (I'd have to look at my staff handbook. There is always overtime available in YYZ so you can earn more when it is available.
The OFPs vary from centre to centre. I believe Toronto to be the highest has it has the greatest traffic volume. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
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MaC is correct regarding OFP. Toronto ACC and Tower are the top of the OFP groupings (Group 10), then Vancouver (9), Montreal (8) then Edmonton and Winnipeg ACCs (7)
Regarding starting pay scales, we started on the 3rd increment.
PM me, and I can give you the exact numbers of $$$s (as I have to go find them)
Regarding starting pay scales, we started on the 3rd increment.
PM me, and I can give you the exact numbers of $$$s (as I have to go find them)
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If I were you I really would make the effort to talk to those that have been to Cananadian ATC and subsequently came back, cause they all hated it. If memory serves correct only 1 or 2 still remain.
This was mainly due to the appalling way they were treated as U/T's. One guy turned up at a house party for a colleague on his watch who had just validated to be told he was not invited as he was a U/T.
As a U/T they were not allowed to sit with valid ATCO's and at certain tables only. Valid ATCO's had no real interest in validating new people cause that meant they would get less overtime. BE WARNED...
This was mainly due to the appalling way they were treated as U/T's. One guy turned up at a house party for a colleague on his watch who had just validated to be told he was not invited as he was a U/T.
As a U/T they were not allowed to sit with valid ATCO's and at certain tables only. Valid ATCO's had no real interest in validating new people cause that meant they would get less overtime. BE WARNED...
Ohcirrej
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I`m probably going to put one or two noses out of joint, but I`m going to call this one as I see it. Moving to a new country, with a new lifestyle and a new set of rules for your playgorund is not something everyone is suited for........and as has been discussed in the AirServices Australia foreign controller thread, the grass isn`t always greener. There is no denying issues regarding training syllabus for experenced people, as well as the work culture of NATS vs Nav Canada (I would be lying to say I haven`t seen trainees treated in the way ATSA_grunt has described, but the culture is certainly changing). From what I have gathered from speaking with controllers who made the move here (and returned), there are certainly one or two facets of the job here that are very different to the UK, including Seniority system, leave policy, no SCRATCHO as such and attitude to overtime (hence sometimes working 9 days on and one day off) .
However, it`s not all doom and gloom. There are 3 UK offshores here in Winnipeg Centre, as well as others around the country, including myself (plus one from the sandpit who arrived about 18 months before us). There is no way in the world I could afford the house I now own on 2.5 acres (sure, it`s under nearly a foot of snow at the moment) of land with a 20 minute drive to work (and that`s without trying
).
Certainly talk to those guys who tried it and came back. But remember, there are others here as well.
However, it`s not all doom and gloom. There are 3 UK offshores here in Winnipeg Centre, as well as others around the country, including myself (plus one from the sandpit who arrived about 18 months before us). There is no way in the world I could afford the house I now own on 2.5 acres (sure, it`s under nearly a foot of snow at the moment) of land with a 20 minute drive to work (and that`s without trying
).Certainly talk to those guys who tried it and came back. But remember, there are others here as well.
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Atsa Grunt
Also depends which unit you are talking about. There is one in Canada that has/had that reputation....not so many experienced controllers posted there now.
YYZ has made a concerted effort to change and I was made to feel incredibly welcome and given all the help necessary to validate. You are treated a bit differently than a fresh faced rookie as you have afew more years under your belt. That is how I found it anyway. They do respect the fact that you were valid elsewhere...especially in the UK.
Think back to when you first started training in NATS and ask if you were considered to be the top of the pile and was included in EVERYTHING on unit.
I have spoken to a couple of the guys who came back..and only one of them was treated in a shabby manner. The other was for personal reasons. Whilst I ENTIRELY sympathised with the shabby treatment I do not think this is a real reason not to go to Canada as it was one unit and it MAY have cleaned up now. The original post was asking for YYZ also..and a management change has led to the clean up here.
I agree with Jerricho in that it dosen't matter where you go in the world or even the UK..new unit = new set of rules....and if you go in and act like you know it all and that you deserve everything that the regulars get then you will get short shrift be it Canada, UK or outer Timbuctoo approach procedural.
You are more likely to get a balanced view from us bods who have been out here now for a while.
Also depends which unit you are talking about. There is one in Canada that has/had that reputation....not so many experienced controllers posted there now.
YYZ has made a concerted effort to change and I was made to feel incredibly welcome and given all the help necessary to validate. You are treated a bit differently than a fresh faced rookie as you have afew more years under your belt. That is how I found it anyway. They do respect the fact that you were valid elsewhere...especially in the UK.
Think back to when you first started training in NATS and ask if you were considered to be the top of the pile and was included in EVERYTHING on unit.
I have spoken to a couple of the guys who came back..and only one of them was treated in a shabby manner. The other was for personal reasons. Whilst I ENTIRELY sympathised with the shabby treatment I do not think this is a real reason not to go to Canada as it was one unit and it MAY have cleaned up now. The original post was asking for YYZ also..and a management change has led to the clean up here.
I agree with Jerricho in that it dosen't matter where you go in the world or even the UK..new unit = new set of rules....and if you go in and act like you know it all and that you deserve everything that the regulars get then you will get short shrift be it Canada, UK or outer Timbuctoo approach procedural.
You are more likely to get a balanced view from us bods who have been out here now for a while.
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I'm with Jerricho on this one. Been here nearly four years and sure there are some idiosyncracies with working for NavCanada but I believe that they are no worse than anyone else. I work in the Center that, up until recently; probably had the worst check out rate in the country - strangely enough I had no problems. Others who arrived after me did (and didn't) but this was largely due to NavCanada not placing the experienced controller's in specialties that suited their respective skillsets and then not having a suitable training system in place to cater for previous ATC experience. Having said that in some instances it came down to just plain old attitude as well. The training system here is vastly improved on what it was (there's still heaps of room for improvement though) and attitudes around the Center have improved as well. As for protecting overtime; I am calling BS......... there's plenty of it and people are getting sick of working it (mind you they do it by choice and then complain about how tired they are); sometimes people are their own worst enemies and it is about time the Union stepped in to protect them from themselves!! There are other strange things with regards to seniority, leave etc. but at the end of the day, as I said earlier; probably no worse than anywhere else. Jerricho, not sure who has the most snow at the moment you or us; certainly the most I have seen in my four winters. We must get together one day for a beer!!!!
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Just reiterating what Barra & Jerricho have written. Yes, this centre (sic) had an abysmal reputation for training - much of it deserved. The situation has changed somewhat over the past 3-4 years, and foreign controllers are now regarded as almost human. Attitudes are improving, and so is the training system - although perhaps not quite what those of us from far-flung regions are used to as yet. I understand YYZ to be more welcoming, but that is hearsay (we had a Brit who didn't make it here, but moved on to Toronto without too much trouble as far as I know).
Notwithstanding the comments above, the lifestyle is fine. Make of it what you will, but it's not a bad place to live at all.
Barra, I thought you gave up beer when you started shaving your legs? Maybe we should discuss this further over a bottle or three of Chilean red?
Notwithstanding the comments above, the lifestyle is fine. Make of it what you will, but it's not a bad place to live at all.
Barra, I thought you gave up beer when you started shaving your legs? Maybe we should discuss this further over a bottle or three of Chilean red?
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West Coast
Hi all, read all the above with interest. I was wondering if there were any ex-pats working in the yvr area who could pass on experiences/info as to the pay/conditions of service and the lifestyle afforded, as it seems to be a higher cost of living than other areas.
