Upper airways.

[gingernut]

Nothing more interesting than staring up from my Manchester home trying to identify high flying aircraft, contrails a blazing.

Who do these chaps talk to, and what type of service do they recieve. And what information do they pass/recieve?

[DTY/LKS]

Overhead Manchester you will have S29 which is located at Manchester Area Control Centre up to FL295 & above that you will have sector 3 (FL285-335) and then sector 4 (FL335+) which both form part of Lakes sector which is situated down at London Area Control Centre at Swanwick. All of these aircraft are in Controlled Airspace & are therefore in reciept of a Radar Control Service. A general mix of traffic including domestic traffic between the Scottish TMA & London TMA & visa versa. Also Transatlantic traffic both eastbound & Westbound.
Hope this helps. Any more info needed?

[gingernut]

Thanks DTY that explains things.

[Pierre Argh]

Gingernut... excuse me be slightly pedantic, but as you're interested you might accept my minor correction to your terminology. There are no "Upper Airways" above Manchester. In the UK airways are only established in the middle and lower airspace, Above FL245 (currently but about to change) slightly different rules apply, in that that all airspace is regulated so there is no need to established corridors, therefore you only need "Upper Air Routes"

Increasing amounts of traffic these days is "off route" (especially at off-peak times, but probably not over Manchester I will admit)... but that's a whole new topic?

[BDiONU]

Originally Posted by Pierre Argh

excuse me be slightly pedantic, but as you're interested you might accept my minor correction to your terminology. There are no "Upper Airways" above Manchester. In the UK airways are only established in the middle and lower airspace, Above FL245 (currently but about to change) slightly different rules apply, in that that all airspace is regulated so there is no need to established corridors, therefore you only need "Upper Air Routes"

Or, to be ultra pedantic, CDR's (Conditional Routes)

BD

[BEXIL160]

Question: Since when have all Upper ATS routes been CDRs?

BEX

[BDiONU]

Originally Posted by BEXIL160

Question: Since when have all Upper ATS routes been CDRs?

Since never, the point I was attempting to make was that there are Upper Air Routes AND CDR's

BD

[MancBoy]

Bex and BD, you need to have a few beers together!!

[UNDERTHEROSUN1F]

ginger,you need to invest in a scanner and all will be revealed ..

[Widger]

If you are going to be pedantic...then CDRs ARE upper air routes and those that exist below FL245 ARE airways. You should not think of CDRs as entities in their own right but purely in terms of flight planning. Can you flight plan down them or not!

Don't get into an argument with me on this one!!!! Trust me...Don't!!!!

[BDiONU]

Originally Posted by Widger

If you are going to be pedantic...then CDRs ARE upper air routes and those that exist below FL245 ARE airways. You should not think of CDRs as entities in their own right but purely in terms of flight planning. Can you flight plan down them or not!

You can flight plan down CDR's when they're available but the availability varies. Unlike Upper Air Routes which are available

Don't get into an argument with me on this one!!!! Trust me...Don't!!!!

Aaaww go on, seem to have reached agreement in the NATS pensions thread with both 'sides' of the argument agreeing that "They're not touching our pensions" I need to kick off somewhere else now

BD

[Pierre Argh]

Who started the "Pedants Revolt"
Whom Tyler

[Widger]

The point is....Most UARs are permanent routes and some are CDRs, Most Airways are permanent routes and some are CDRs. CDRs and Airways/UARS are not mutually exclusive, just the flight planning aspect. On permanent routes you can flight plan all the time. On CDRs only some of the time. Anyway BDiONU and Peirre don't argue with me, I know where both of you live Shippers!!!

[Pierre Argh]

don't argue with me

Widger, as if I would... but I've moved!

[gingernut]

Thanks for the replies.

Sorry about the terminology, anything over 3000 foot is upper airways to me! (Usually over the Chorley Lakes)

ginger,you need to invest in a scanner and all will be revealed ..

I guess I could have rephrased my question-"what frequency would I listen in on?" but of course that would be illegal.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Illegal only if you record it or re-broadcast it. The Frequencies are public knowledge and appear in the UK Air Pilot (sorry, Aeronautical Information Publication) at;
http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/html/enrdata.htm .