Whats Going on?
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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Whats Going on?
What's going on at the moment with all these Uk airspace closures? What are nats doing to prevent this from getting any worse?
Its costing us a lot of fuel with all the low level flying and detours which is obviously not doing us any favours.
On the other hand I would like to express thanks for the help we have had from the guys in london flow in managing the reroutes.
Slow Progress
Its costing us a lot of fuel with all the low level flying and detours which is obviously not doing us any favours.
On the other hand I would like to express thanks for the help we have had from the guys in london flow in managing the reroutes.
Slow Progress
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Do you mean overnight? I know some sectors at LACC were due to be closed because of staff sickness.
If you mean during the day, there has been quite a bit of flow put on in the NW of England because of the Lakes resectorisation.
If you mean during the day, there has been quite a bit of flow put on in the NW of England because of the Lakes resectorisation.
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Staffing
TACT/CASA MESSAGE : XCD - CLOSURE
-------------------------------
1 REF : CLOSURE OF AIRSPACE - EGLMU (LUS+LMS SCTRS COMBINED)
.
2 DUE TO : ATC STAFFING
.
3 VALID : WEF: 31ST-0100 UTC UNTIL: 31ST-0400 UTC
ZERORATE IN FORCE FROM 0040-0420 UTC
.
4 TFC : -TRAFFIC ENTERING EGLMU (LUS+LMS SCTRS COMBINED)
.
5 REMARKS : -FLIGHTS INTENDING TO OPERATE AFTER THE CLOSURE
MUST SEND AN FCM AND WILL RECEIVE A SAM/SRM
ACCORDING TO THE RE-OPENING TIME.
.
-FLIGHTS NOT INTENDING TO OPERATE MUST CNL THEIR FPL
BY SENDING A CNL MESSAGE.
.
-FLIGHTS WISHING TO AVOID THIS AIRSPACE MAY DO SO BY
REFILING BELOW FL215
.
-ALTERNATIVE ROUTES ARE AVAILABLE OVER THE CLACTON
AREA BY THE EAST OR VIA BHD AREA BY THE WEST
.
FMD-BRUSSELS.
-------------------------------
1 REF : CLOSURE OF AIRSPACE - EGLMU (LUS+LMS SCTRS COMBINED)
.
2 DUE TO : ATC STAFFING
.
3 VALID : WEF: 31ST-0100 UTC UNTIL: 31ST-0400 UTC
ZERORATE IN FORCE FROM 0040-0420 UTC
.
4 TFC : -TRAFFIC ENTERING EGLMU (LUS+LMS SCTRS COMBINED)
.
5 REMARKS : -FLIGHTS INTENDING TO OPERATE AFTER THE CLOSURE
MUST SEND AN FCM AND WILL RECEIVE A SAM/SRM
ACCORDING TO THE RE-OPENING TIME.
.
-FLIGHTS NOT INTENDING TO OPERATE MUST CNL THEIR FPL
BY SENDING A CNL MESSAGE.
.
-FLIGHTS WISHING TO AVOID THIS AIRSPACE MAY DO SO BY
REFILING BELOW FL215
.
-ALTERNATIVE ROUTES ARE AVAILABLE OVER THE CLACTON
AREA BY THE EAST OR VIA BHD AREA BY THE WEST
.
FMD-BRUSSELS.
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The reason for closures at night is usually staff sickness, it used to happen very rarely until NATS management decided to have only three controllers per sector, instead of four at swanwick. Now if only one controller is sick it will result in airspace closure if no cover can be found.
I think it's viewed as a price worth paying if it reduces our costs to airlines. Maybe Slow Progress should ask his airline why so much pressure is put on NATS to reduce costs if this is the outcome.
I find it hard to square Willie Walsh's recent rants in 'pulse' over costs with the thousands of minutes of airborne holding caused when just one lighting operator goes sick at Heathrow and we're forced to do 4 mile spacing.
I find it hard to square Willie Walsh's recent rants in 'pulse' over costs with the thousands of minutes of airborne holding caused when just one lighting operator goes sick at Heathrow and we're forced to do 4 mile spacing.
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As Gonzo said,both Sun night & Mon night, LMS & LUS were closed due to short notice sickness leaving only 2 valid controllers in the room. Was shut from 1.30am-4.30am on the 1st night & 1.30am-4am last night. Although this isn`t ideal, i doubt this is the problem Slow Progress is talkin about.
On the 26th of Oct the new airspace came in for Lakes & also MACC IOM. The heavy restrictions are to last 10 days. This is because of LACC & MACC working a 5-watch system & obviously each watch needs to experience the new sectors at a reduced capacity. As far as i am aware the capacity should be lifted after the bedding in period.
Hope this helps.
On the 26th of Oct the new airspace came in for Lakes & also MACC IOM. The heavy restrictions are to last 10 days. This is because of LACC & MACC working a 5-watch system & obviously each watch needs to experience the new sectors at a reduced capacity. As far as i am aware the capacity should be lifted after the bedding in period.
Hope this helps.
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only 2 controllers ?
What do you mean by only 2 valid controllers ? Do you mean in the ACC or in the sector ?
What are the 2 valid controllers doing all night when the 3rd is sick ?
In Canada the regular staffing for night shifts is 2 controllers per sector and it's working fine ...
What are the 2 valid controllers doing all night when the 3rd is sick ?
In Canada the regular staffing for night shifts is 2 controllers per sector and it's working fine ...
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It was 2 controllers for that sector. At night time at LACC, they combine London Upper Sector & London Middle Seector. On nights they require 3 controllers to do this combined sector (2 working on Tactical & Planner while the other is on a break.) One guy went sick which caused the sector to close for a short period during the night.
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Don't forget that the minimum staffing on a sector at LACC is two controllers, tactical and planner. This is believed to be the result of an airprox (airmiss then!!) over LYD back in the early 1980's which was investigated by the AAIB and one of the recommendations was that there should always be two controllers on a sector. There have been suggestions that this could reduce at night to single sector manning but at the moment, if only two turn up it is a legal requirement to shut the sector to get the breaks in.
I am a bit bemused by the suggestion in the FMU message which suggests that there is an alternative route through the Clacton Sector. I thought that all the high level overflying routes through there went through LUS as well. Maybe I've got the airspace design wrong. I'm sure somebody will put me right!! I suppose EGBB inbounds could sneak under LMS but I'm not sure that this is a big advantage.
A I
I am a bit bemused by the suggestion in the FMU message which suggests that there is an alternative route through the Clacton Sector. I thought that all the high level overflying routes through there went through LUS as well. Maybe I've got the airspace design wrong. I'm sure somebody will put me right!! I suppose EGBB inbounds could sneak under LMS but I'm not sure that this is a big advantage.
A I
