Data Link at LHR
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Joined: Feb 2000
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From: UK
Data Link at LHR
Was talking to my neighbour recently. He told me that he had written a feasability study paper into the use of Data Link (ACARS PDC) a few years back and was most suprised to hear that it was still not being used at LHR. Is there any plans afoot to redress this situation?
Apparently it was/is trialled at LGW
Cheers
Sean
Apparently it was/is trialled at LGW
Cheers
Sean
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 84
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From: South of Beirut, North of Aden
Once you've done it a few times (with a/c whose drivers know what they are doing), you will wonder why it wasn't introduced years ago.
Cheers folks.
PS, Technology 'ay?
Last edited by choclit runway; 1st October 2006 at 15:30. Reason: Wanted too!
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 214
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From: UK
How will the "P" in GMP work with the datalink clearance at Heathrow? At some other places the clearance is obtained and acknowledged by ACARS (whether or not we are "ready") and the next call is to GMC. I guess you'll want us to read back the clearance to Delivery when we are actually ready and then the planning will occur?
I think GMP could become a really interesting seat to sit in on a snowy day with T5 open and a score of pilots holding datalink clearances, looking at a long taxi with a rapidly expiring holdover time all wanting to know why they can't start NOW as they've already got their clearance!
G W-H
I think GMP could become a really interesting seat to sit in on a snowy day with T5 open and a score of pilots holding datalink clearances, looking at a long taxi with a rapidly expiring holdover time all wanting to know why they can't start NOW as they've already got their clearance!
G W-H
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,122
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From: uk
Hong Kong introduced Data Link in about 2000 to Cathy,Dragonair and Air HongKong.It worked well and the clearance was readback on CDC (GMP), when the a/c were ready.It was only after that that the bad news about flow restrictions was given.There were no Europe style slot times.CDC worked out the delays.It cut down r/t a lot,and was just a simple computer terminal.No EFPS either.I would have thought LL might have had it sooner.
PS the training was simple,only took 30 mins.
PS the training was simple,only took 30 mins.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 84
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From: South of Beirut, North of Aden
Some of you are missing the point. EFPS, there is a specific datalink bay. An a/c, by technological wizardry beyond my moth like brains comprehension, sends a magic message to our little database which informs us heshe is ready for clearence along with all the usual appropriate data (a/c type bla bla bla). You respond by populating the neccessary clearance fields (as you will with all types of clearance on efps) and send it back to the a/c. If heshe acknowledges the clearance correctly the 'strip' will automatically moves to the 'cleared' bay and then you continue as you would with any other a/c (good 'ole voice comms).
If anything goes wrong anywhere along the line a simple 'revert to voice' msg is sent to MrMrsMiss Pilot.
I.E... all you are cutting out is the actual action of reading the clearance to a pilot and having himher repeat it, et voila, the point of the excercise... Saving RT time.
I also discovered you can be talking to one pilot giving a voice clearance whilst at the same time sending one to another a/c by datalink... Genious.
Fear not chaps, its a great system! (and I am in no way management or taking a back hander from datalink).
Ciao.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,432
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From: LHR/EGLL
Choclit runway, I don't think anyone is missing the point. We're now 2/3 the way through our training and it hasn't even been mentioned yet, regardless of the fact that it seems straightforward to operate. Just like the Supervisor's layout.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 84
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From: South of Beirut, North of Aden
Gonzo.
I take your point. Usual comms hey?
It should have been mentioned (if only to assure you that adequate training will be given), but you really will only need a miniscule amount.
I know the transition from paper to screen (going off on a tangent here) is slightly daunting but of all the controllers I know, very few would return to paper. At the risk of infuriating some ATSA's now (of which some are massively underestimated/utilised), on the days when you get an unhelpful/moody/tired/disinterested one, delivery (in times of fog/delays etc etc etc) can be made a bigger nightmare than it already is. That goes out the window with EFPS. The task is simplified (as EFPS is meant to do).
I will emphasize now that I am not making this an anti-atsa thread or management/training bashing thread.
To emphasise my initial response... Should have been at least demo'd to you by now.
Ta Ta
PS Anyone operating EFPS Disagree? I know it's along way from perfection but would anyone go back? Personally found it easier after only a week or so of it being live.
I take your point. Usual comms hey?
It should have been mentioned (if only to assure you that adequate training will be given), but you really will only need a miniscule amount.
I know the transition from paper to screen (going off on a tangent here) is slightly daunting but of all the controllers I know, very few would return to paper. At the risk of infuriating some ATSA's now (of which some are massively underestimated/utilised), on the days when you get an unhelpful/moody/tired/disinterested one, delivery (in times of fog/delays etc etc etc) can be made a bigger nightmare than it already is. That goes out the window with EFPS. The task is simplified (as EFPS is meant to do).
I will emphasize now that I am not making this an anti-atsa thread or management/training bashing thread.
To emphasise my initial response... Should have been at least demo'd to you by now.
Ta Ta
PS Anyone operating EFPS Disagree? I know it's along way from perfection but would anyone go back? Personally found it easier after only a week or so of it being live.
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: uk
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: UK
Er no dig was meant there. Gonzo was merely pointing out situation normal at LHR where the coalface workers are the last to hear about such things.
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Fort Worth ARTCC ZFW
WARNING - WARNING - WARNING !!!!!!
Not so much for the tower folks when this goes into effect, but the Center folks and to a lesser extent the approach folks..
We have found over the years that some crews who are not real proficient at reading the clearances over ACARs sometimes get them WRONG... They look at it incorrectly and program what was filed vrs. what was spit out by the host computer. They then tend to go where you aren't expecting them too and it causes heart palpitations <G>... Careful out there...
Not so much for the tower folks when this goes into effect, but the Center folks and to a lesser extent the approach folks..
We have found over the years that some crews who are not real proficient at reading the clearances over ACARs sometimes get them WRONG... They look at it incorrectly and program what was filed vrs. what was spit out by the host computer. They then tend to go where you aren't expecting them too and it causes heart palpitations <G>... Careful out there...
