New MACC GM
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New MACC GM
Is it just me or is it a wee bit insensitive for the management team to introduce the new GM to the 'troops' when most of them arent even aware that the old GM is leaving? No emails, just a note on the NATS homepage.
The old GM gave the impression that he was carrying out changes to prepare us all (including himself) for the move to NPC and lo and behold we now have a third GM leaving our unit before the move and heading south where we are refused postings. Is it any wonder we are a smidge cynical.
1.Being posted en masse to another country (which we are sure is against european employment law-and are pursuing such advice)
2. Taking on more and more sectors from 'elsewhere'
3. Still being ignored on the banding issue even though we do have management agreement that it IS unfair based on FACTS.
4. Still having ATCOs leaving for elsewhere (the latest ones being farcical)
5. Not being offered redundancy (even though our place of work is closing and the staff handbook says we should be)
Wonder what would happen if the Spanish or French relaxed their joining requirements...inundation!!
The old GM gave the impression that he was carrying out changes to prepare us all (including himself) for the move to NPC and lo and behold we now have a third GM leaving our unit before the move and heading south where we are refused postings. Is it any wonder we are a smidge cynical.
1.Being posted en masse to another country (which we are sure is against european employment law-and are pursuing such advice)
2. Taking on more and more sectors from 'elsewhere'
3. Still being ignored on the banding issue even though we do have management agreement that it IS unfair based on FACTS.
4. Still having ATCOs leaving for elsewhere (the latest ones being farcical)
5. Not being offered redundancy (even though our place of work is closing and the staff handbook says we should be)
Wonder what would happen if the Spanish or French relaxed their joining requirements...inundation!!
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Flyboys message tells me to stop winging as ATC is a mobile grade. Since last November the European parliament has clarified that if a 'mobile grade' is not exercised (ie been moved) within a certain period of time it therefore becomes legally permanent and cannot be considered mobile. Watch this space...EGCC has been at MACC far longer than the qualifying period so lets have that constant argument ended now please. For once well done europe.
He also says what about the scottish people who left their country to go the bournemouth...I believe that was their choice.
As for his comment about the family argument not holding up...are you management sir?
Next one? 'cost of living is cheaper in scotland'...bet youre convinced with destinations too.
United we stand...
He also says what about the scottish people who left their country to go the bournemouth...I believe that was their choice.
As for his comment about the family argument not holding up...are you management sir?
Next one? 'cost of living is cheaper in scotland'...bet youre convinced with destinations too.
United we stand...
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Point 1.
Last I heard, the United Kingdom was the country we all lived in, a union between England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Back to school for some history and geography lessons Mahaba !!
Points 2,3 & 4
These have merit.
Point 5
I would advise you take legal advice on this and not hearsay. Of course NATS could just offer you all straight redundancy at the statutory rate I suppose. If it was me, then that would be a whopping 21 1/2 weeks salary. That'll go far
It would save NATS a fortune in relocation fees and salaries too .... although service delivery might be impacted for a while 
All those at LACC were moved, possibly against their will. All those at LTCC are about to be in the next few years. MACC is not a special case.
Last I heard, the United Kingdom was the country we all lived in, a union between England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Back to school for some history and geography lessons Mahaba !!
Points 2,3 & 4
These have merit.
Point 5
I would advise you take legal advice on this and not hearsay. Of course NATS could just offer you all straight redundancy at the statutory rate I suppose. If it was me, then that would be a whopping 21 1/2 weeks salary. That'll go far
It would save NATS a fortune in relocation fees and salaries too .... although service delivery might be impacted for a while All those at LACC were moved, possibly against their will. All those at LTCC are about to be in the next few years. MACC is not a special case.
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You have also been lucky to have had a plum posting for many years!. There are many of us who would have killed for a posting to Manchester. You are only having to do what many of us have already had to do.
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Im annoyed with some of my MACC colleagues on this issue. Yes, I want to stay in Manchester with my family and friends. If I had to move, Scotland is not necessarily my location of choice albeit Edinburgh was my uni of choice in my past...
Mahaba, exactly WHY do you not want to go? Is it Scotland or moving? If so please enlighten me with your extensive experience!
Are there any previously England based ATCOs on here at Prestwick who can shed some light for us all on living and working conditions in Scotland , including problems, if any, on living up there?!
Thanks for any "intellegent" input.
No, I would rather not go but looks like I am so gonna be as prepared as poss! Sure LATCC guys didnt/dont wanna leave for the south coast!!!
Mahaba, exactly WHY do you not want to go? Is it Scotland or moving? If so please enlighten me with your extensive experience!
Are there any previously England based ATCOs on here at Prestwick who can shed some light for us all on living and working conditions in Scotland , including problems, if any, on living up there?!
Thanks for any "intellegent" input.
No, I would rather not go but looks like I am so gonna be as prepared as poss! Sure LATCC guys didnt/dont wanna leave for the south coast!!!
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Point one. The United Kingdom is NOT a country
England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland ARE countries
The United Kingdom is a nation.
Oxford's definition not mine...lesson learned.
Fidgell-It's not the moving as such. It's the lack of options and the extraordinarily poor way the whole thing has been managed since the early 90's, the lack of options available, the denial of postings elsewhere and the lies which we have been subjected to.
Mobile grade-It is legally not enfoceable. This is currently being pursued by 4 different legal teams now, and is therefore not just opinion-it is legal fact...look it up if you doubt it. We have been told we are a mobile grade as the standard answer-not true.
We are told if there are any positions available we will be allowed to move south. One ATCO this week handed in his notice at EGCC because he was denied a move down south as he could not be released to be with his partner at TC. She has also resigned. Point made.
We are told redundancy is not an aoption. Again (and it's not the amount) I refer you to european law and our very own staff handbook. More 'untruths'.
Many of us have the opinion that NATS are not advising us of these options and legal points as the house of cards would come tumbling down. They may be just about to. It's not about whether you like or dislike Prestwick. How many times do we need to say that? It's a basic right of everyone to be treated with honesty and respect. We feel that this has not happened.
Are NATS in for a bit of a shock.?I honestly believe so but what would I know?
As for another GM leaving before the move. It seems to have been a rapid move that no one had the slightest inkling about.
Something about a sinking ship?
Point one. The United Kingdom is NOT a country
England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland ARE countries
The United Kingdom is a nation.
Oxford's definition not mine...lesson learned.
Fidgell-It's not the moving as such. It's the lack of options and the extraordinarily poor way the whole thing has been managed since the early 90's, the lack of options available, the denial of postings elsewhere and the lies which we have been subjected to.
Mobile grade-It is legally not enfoceable. This is currently being pursued by 4 different legal teams now, and is therefore not just opinion-it is legal fact...look it up if you doubt it. We have been told we are a mobile grade as the standard answer-not true.
We are told if there are any positions available we will be allowed to move south. One ATCO this week handed in his notice at EGCC because he was denied a move down south as he could not be released to be with his partner at TC. She has also resigned. Point made.
We are told redundancy is not an aoption. Again (and it's not the amount) I refer you to european law and our very own staff handbook. More 'untruths'.
Many of us have the opinion that NATS are not advising us of these options and legal points as the house of cards would come tumbling down. They may be just about to. It's not about whether you like or dislike Prestwick. How many times do we need to say that? It's a basic right of everyone to be treated with honesty and respect. We feel that this has not happened.
Are NATS in for a bit of a shock.?I honestly believe so but what would I know?
As for another GM leaving before the move. It seems to have been a rapid move that no one had the slightest inkling about.
Something about a sinking ship?
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Lets face it NATS dont give a s*** about people leaving. One has quit, yes, but NATS wont be held to ransom by some folk who think theyre a budding lawyer I can tell you. Hence why nothing was done to retain the Canadian exports.... all but preventing Nav Canada from taking any more
You still havent given your reasons for not going north, you want options? YOU WANT TO GO SOUTH!!! If NATS gave us all the option of up or down the M6 where would the vast majority go??? Exactly, leaving who to man the MACC sectors??? What if you get down south and fail to validate on a LACC sector?? Will you leave the company quietly or want your old job back???
I think maybe another 1, 2 max, will quit - everyone else will just do what they have to... including you my little trouble seeking friend - unless you have another skilled 60k + a year career on your CV!!!
You still havent given your reasons for not going north, you want options? YOU WANT TO GO SOUTH!!! If NATS gave us all the option of up or down the M6 where would the vast majority go??? Exactly, leaving who to man the MACC sectors??? What if you get down south and fail to validate on a LACC sector?? Will you leave the company quietly or want your old job back???
I think maybe another 1, 2 max, will quit - everyone else will just do what they have to... including you my little trouble seeking friend - unless you have another skilled 60k + a year career on your CV!!!
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I have to agree. All the 'bleating' achieves nothing and I guarantee the majority won't leave.
Not so sure about the Nav Canada option - a few too many NATS people tried their experienced controller program and went back to the UK/Great Britain/England/Scotland (delete as applicable).
The move IS going to happen. Stop moaning (because it's getting really dull), embrace it and all our lives will be more pleasant.
Not so sure about the Nav Canada option - a few too many NATS people tried their experienced controller program and went back to the UK/Great Britain/England/Scotland (delete as applicable).
The move IS going to happen. Stop moaning (because it's getting really dull), embrace it and all our lives will be more pleasant.
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I agree with the majority of Number2's post, but have to disagree about the Nav Canada option, everyone from MACC that went to Canada, some 8 that I can think of, have stayed over there and apart from a crappy training experience - they have all stayed and still love it! Dunno about other units - but I for one, and several others I know of would be interested still should NATS release their - alledged - blackmailling of Nav Canada and allow us to pursue our interest!
Not a Scottish thing for me, or even just generally moving, Canada just appeals anyway and I thought if Im moving anyway why not??? NATS tell me why not anyway!
Still Scotland here we come, please be gentle!
Not a Scottish thing for me, or even just generally moving, Canada just appeals anyway and I thought if Im moving anyway why not??? NATS tell me why not anyway!
Still Scotland here we come, please be gentle!
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Point one. The United Kingdom is NOT a country
England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland ARE countries
The United Kingdom is a nation.
Oxford's definition not mine...lesson learned.
Point one. The United Kingdom is NOT a country
England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland ARE countries
The United Kingdom is a nation.
Oxford's definition not mine...lesson learned.
If you wish to employ someone in the legal profession to try to determine that Scotland (or England, or Wales, or NI) is in fact a separate EU Country/Member State from the UK, then feel free to throw your money their way. But don't waste our union money on it please.
Back to the original point of the thread (which was diverted to a wider topic straight from Post #1
), the handling of any change in GM and the announcements, etc, are (on face value) abysmal. Another poor show in communications if the reported sequence of events is correct.
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Well Scotland has it's own Legal and Education System, a Very Expensive Parliament,and Football/Rugby teams
,but thats not important right now.
Also made in Scotland has a distinctive mark in the EU and we make a lot of your petrol.
There seems to be a lot of very sudden management moves around at the moment.A lot more than the usual musical chairs.
,but thats not important right now. Also made in Scotland has a distinctive mark in the EU and we make a lot of your petrol.There seems to be a lot of very sudden management moves around at the moment.A lot more than the usual musical chairs.
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OK i had deleted my original post as i felt that it was a bit to pointed.
But to respond!
1. I had no choice where to go, i was posted!
2. I like many others had NO choice but to move to Bournemouth to do the training. I didn't see any ATC colleges in scotland.
3. My family moved down to bournemouth to be with me as a family unit to help and support me. I'm guessing that you didn't get the reduced salary at the college so don't complain about standard of living!
And cost of living is relative to pay but lets just take housing as an example:
3 bed terrace (England) £210K, 4 Bed villa (West coast of Scotland) circa £170K, nuff said me thinks!!
4. And no i'm not management
Rant over
But to respond!
1. I had no choice where to go, i was posted!
2. I like many others had NO choice but to move to Bournemouth to do the training. I didn't see any ATC colleges in scotland.
3. My family moved down to bournemouth to be with me as a family unit to help and support me. I'm guessing that you didn't get the reduced salary at the college so don't complain about standard of living!
And cost of living is relative to pay but lets just take housing as an example:
3 bed terrace (England) £210K, 4 Bed villa (West coast of Scotland) circa £170K, nuff said me thinks!!
4. And no i'm not management
Rant over
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tired-flyboy.. So why are you in ATC? You KNEW the score before joining. When I joined I would have gone anywhere to do the job. I wanted Heathrow badly but was too scared to think of asking. I tentatively suggested that "southern England" would be enormously helpful, family-wise, and got Heathrow. Guess I was lucky.
Seems to me from this - and many other - thread(s) that people worry too much about other things rather than the actual job. There was a new GM at LATCC once and I didn't know about it until about 6 months after the change. So what? "Management" to me were just office workers.
Moral: Go to work. Plug in headset and do the best job you can possibly do to provide a good service. Unplug. Go home and forget work and enjoy your family. Collect large salary and enjoy more time off than the majority of those in other jobs.
Oh yes - who is the new GM - Derek Jenkins?
Seems to me from this - and many other - thread(s) that people worry too much about other things rather than the actual job. There was a new GM at LATCC once and I didn't know about it until about 6 months after the change. So what? "Management" to me were just office workers.
Moral: Go to work. Plug in headset and do the best job you can possibly do to provide a good service. Unplug. Go home and forget work and enjoy your family. Collect large salary and enjoy more time off than the majority of those in other jobs.
Oh yes - who is the new GM - Derek Jenkins?
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Mahaba
If only nATS could communicate as well as pPrune.....of course the question is.....do they really want to, or are they just pretending that communications are important?
Frightened people, shallow people, weak people.....all adopt a knowledge-is-power approach. Anyway, where was I? Oh yes, thanks for the heads-up goss on GM................I'm gutted to have missed another VN after missing the Watch Manager post at Swanwick. May be a job at Bristol..........the successful candidate is xxxxxx but if you'd like a day out there may be interviews for appearance' sake.
If only nATS could communicate as well as pPrune.....of course the question is.....do they really want to, or are they just pretending that communications are important?
Frightened people, shallow people, weak people.....all adopt a knowledge-is-power approach. Anyway, where was I? Oh yes, thanks for the heads-up goss on GM................I'm gutted to have missed another VN after missing the Watch Manager post at Swanwick. May be a job at Bristol..........the successful candidate is xxxxxx but if you'd like a day out there may be interviews for appearance' sake.
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Tired,
A 4 bed villa in NE Scotland is nearer £240K and thats offers over.You'd have to pay 20%+ OVER to get that.Average house prices in Glasgow are about the same.Thats one of the reasons we get less money.A move to NPC is a £16K pay rise.Whey Hae
A 4 bed villa in NE Scotland is nearer £240K and thats offers over.You'd have to pay 20%+ OVER to get that.Average house prices in Glasgow are about the same.Thats one of the reasons we get less money.A move to NPC is a £16K pay rise.Whey Hae