Tips for a/c ID....please?
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Tips for a/c ID....please?
Hi folks
I'm currently preparing myself for ATCO selection with NATS in the UK. Part of Stage 1 involves common commercial a/c identification and characteristics.
I'm not a complete novice to this, I've been interested in aviation for years so I can spot a B747 easily along with variations like the 400 series or SP. I just wondered if anybody could give me some simple tips on how you ID an a/c.
Here's the particular types that we've been instructed to "get up to speed" on:
Boeing 737, 747, 757, 767, 777
Airbus A300, A310, A318, A319, A320, A321, A330, A340
MD80/81/82/83/87/88/90
MD11
Fokker 70/100
Embraer 135/145, ERJ170, ERJ190
Avro Regional Jet 70, 85 and 100
One thing I look at is number of engines. But what are the other tell-tale signs? What's the difference between the MD series visually?
Any tips appreciated...otherwise it's just good old study and memory!
I'm currently preparing myself for ATCO selection with NATS in the UK. Part of Stage 1 involves common commercial a/c identification and characteristics.
I'm not a complete novice to this, I've been interested in aviation for years so I can spot a B747 easily along with variations like the 400 series or SP. I just wondered if anybody could give me some simple tips on how you ID an a/c.
Here's the particular types that we've been instructed to "get up to speed" on:
Boeing 737, 747, 757, 767, 777
Airbus A300, A310, A318, A319, A320, A321, A330, A340
MD80/81/82/83/87/88/90
MD11
Fokker 70/100
Embraer 135/145, ERJ170, ERJ190
Avro Regional Jet 70, 85 and 100
One thing I look at is number of engines. But what are the other tell-tale signs? What's the difference between the MD series visually?
Any tips appreciated...otherwise it's just good old study and memory!
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yep..it is...apart from the obvious...shape , size and number of engines..you could check out the undercarriage , the wingtips ( airbus as opposed to boeing )...it is a matter of study and memory....
you should get a good civil aviation book of photographs or google it..there are any amount of photographs ( all shapes and sizes ) and you can search for exactly what you are looking for on www.airliners.net.
try that.
may be a little more difficult when it comes to things like the 319/321..of course no problem with 330/340..
those that drive the particular versions may have the best clues as to the differences....but despite being around them for years i still have difficulty with small differences in some models..
try the website.
good luck..
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good...and sorry ment to say about the MD's...the 11 is obvious but the others are more difficult...
probably a driver of one will give better guidance but as a passanger i would say the newer ones like the 88 aand 90 were much longer and thinner and had beautiful pencil thin ( when looking from underneath ) wings and quieter and longer sleeker engines..
again check the net for that.
the 11 of course has the 3rd engine up on the tail and is wide body...all the others were twin rere mounted fans..
there you go...
probably a driver of one will give better guidance but as a passanger i would say the newer ones like the 88 aand 90 were much longer and thinner and had beautiful pencil thin ( when looking from underneath ) wings and quieter and longer sleeker engines..
again check the net for that.
the 11 of course has the 3rd engine up on the tail and is wide body...all the others were twin rere mounted fans..
there you go...
Bear Behind
Telling the difference between any of the MD80 series is a nightmare. The MD90 is easy because it has IAE V2500 (V2525-D5) engines in a bigger nacelle. But the '80s - if you ever figure how to tell all of them apart, let me know! There were so many different build standards and so many labels attached it's painful.
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I'll go do some research on that one..........the IAE2500 (V2525-D5) engine in a bigger nacelle. I thought my vocabulary was good !
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OK....I've sussed out that a nacelle is a 'housing' which typically will hold an engine. I've also checked an MD90 and noticed the larger engines, which are labelled as Boeings.
The MD11 is distinctive, but it looks very similar to a DC-10. Only differences I've noticed are winglets on the MD11 and the wing engines do look different but I'm not sure.
On another note, I was watching some video clips of a/c landing and I noticed a 737's nacelles splitting just after touch down. I've never seen that before. Is that common to all engines, or just some? Is it to do with reverse thrust or brakes or something else?
The MD11 is distinctive, but it looks very similar to a DC-10. Only differences I've noticed are winglets on the MD11 and the wing engines do look different but I'm not sure.
On another note, I was watching some video clips of a/c landing and I noticed a 737's nacelles splitting just after touch down. I've never seen that before. Is that common to all engines, or just some? Is it to do with reverse thrust or brakes or something else?
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We all start somewhere, and a/c ID is just one aspect of Air Traffic Control. You could even say that visual ID of a/c isn't that important for area controllers, or other controllers for that matter.
Have I considered banking? Have you considered stand-up?
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I have to disagree with Rainboe, with a come-back like that, roundthebend will do fine in ATC.
To try and help out, I've no idea how this is tested in stage 1 selection (maybe there's more info somewhere on Pprune) but here are a few hints......but I should warn you that I've been an aerodrome person for the best part of 30 years and I have trouble with distinguishing between many types.
A300s always struck me as looking different to everything else, they seem to stand higher, taller fin and big engines. A310s are short 300s. The 320 series are tricky, 318s are noticeably short, 321s are noticeably a little bit long, but 319s and 320s cause me difficulty unless they're next to each other!
Boeings - I guess 73s and 74s are easy and there's nothing long and thin like a 75 in the air. The 76 and 777 are fatter.
When they're high up I find the wing shape on the Boeings and Airbuses are completely different - can't describe it but see if you can find pics and you might see what I mean.
I agree with everything that's been said about the MD-80 series. I gather that the end of the fuselage under the fin gives a hint to the model but it's not foolproof (this courtesy of a spotter-ATSA colleague) - some are round and others look like they shut the hangar door before the thing was out.
With the smaller types I'm afraid I'm not that familiar - I just say "follow the Fokker" or whatever! But I think it basically comes down to length.....there's a joke there somewhere but I won't bother.
Hope this helps and good luck.
To try and help out, I've no idea how this is tested in stage 1 selection (maybe there's more info somewhere on Pprune) but here are a few hints......but I should warn you that I've been an aerodrome person for the best part of 30 years and I have trouble with distinguishing between many types.
A300s always struck me as looking different to everything else, they seem to stand higher, taller fin and big engines. A310s are short 300s. The 320 series are tricky, 318s are noticeably short, 321s are noticeably a little bit long, but 319s and 320s cause me difficulty unless they're next to each other!
Boeings - I guess 73s and 74s are easy and there's nothing long and thin like a 75 in the air. The 76 and 777 are fatter.
When they're high up I find the wing shape on the Boeings and Airbuses are completely different - can't describe it but see if you can find pics and you might see what I mean.
I agree with everything that's been said about the MD-80 series. I gather that the end of the fuselage under the fin gives a hint to the model but it's not foolproof (this courtesy of a spotter-ATSA colleague) - some are round and others look like they shut the hangar door before the thing was out.
With the smaller types I'm afraid I'm not that familiar - I just say "follow the Fokker" or whatever! But I think it basically comes down to length.....there's a joke there somewhere but I won't bother.
Hope this helps and good luck.
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If they ask you in the interview to identify a picture that you don't know, you could always say "Hey, on a radar screen they all look the same" 
With the Embraer aircraft, the ERJ170/190s look like a cross between a 737-700 (winglets) and an Airbus A319. The 135s/145s look very low-slung on the ground (kinda sleek like a sports car). I always found it a little easier in working out which airlines operate what. For example, back when I first started as an assistant in Australia, Qantas were the only ones who flew A300s (can be confused a little with a B767). Just a suggestion.
All the very best of luck mate
With the Embraer aircraft, the ERJ170/190s look like a cross between a 737-700 (winglets) and an Airbus A319. The 135s/145s look very low-slung on the ground (kinda sleek like a sports car). I always found it a little easier in working out which airlines operate what. For example, back when I first started as an assistant in Australia, Qantas were the only ones who flew A300s (can be confused a little with a B767). Just a suggestion.
All the very best of luck mate
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It strikes me as inconsistent to group all the 737's in one lump (-100 thru -900ER), yet try to individually distinguish all the MD80s & 90, ditto the A318/19/20/21.
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I did my selection tests in 2000,so my information may not be current. On the first selection day there were no aircraft recognition tests. On the 2nd stage, during the "technical interview" part of the day,my interviewer produced about half a dozen small model aircraft and asked me to identify them. I got the obvious-Concorde,B747,and a DC10 i think. The rest were of the B737,A320 size of aircraft and I had to admit that I didn't know the difference! If you have done well in the rest of the application process then not knowing the difference between an A320 and a B737 will not harm you at all.Good luck.
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some very newbie questions, but yes the engines 'splitting' is thrust reverser opening.
here's some of my amateur spotting hints:
74-2 - short upper deck
74-3 - long upper deck, no winglets
74-4 - long UD, winglets.
76-2 - short and fat, but still big
76-3 - longer, than a 200. no winglets. small flap track canoes
all 73's - can see the wheels when retracted and have a large fin
73-3 - no winglets.
73-4,5,6,7,8. very hard to tell apart except from length, especially now winglets are being retro fitted.
777 - triple axle bogie. knife-edge tail (as opposed to 76 which has a cone)
DC10/MD11 - are there any DC10's still flying? MD11's have winglets.
my advice - print off some from www.airliners.net and study them.
cheerrs
here's some of my amateur spotting hints:
74-2 - short upper deck
74-3 - long upper deck, no winglets
74-4 - long UD, winglets.
76-2 - short and fat, but still big
76-3 - longer, than a 200. no winglets. small flap track canoes
all 73's - can see the wheels when retracted and have a large fin
73-3 - no winglets.
73-4,5,6,7,8. very hard to tell apart except from length, especially now winglets are being retro fitted.
777 - triple axle bogie. knife-edge tail (as opposed to 76 which has a cone)
DC10/MD11 - are there any DC10's still flying? MD11's have winglets.
my advice - print off some from www.airliners.net and study them.
cheerrs
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ACFT IDs
Hi roundthebend,
If you really want to study all types and of acft, please go to EUROCONTROL web site and register yourself in the Elearning zone. Overthere, you will fine elearning courses. Take one called Aircraft recognition and performances. You will find there from the oldest type to the newest one with all photos and performances. I have learned there whatever I need.
I think, it will help you much.
If you really want to study all types and of acft, please go to EUROCONTROL web site and register yourself in the Elearning zone. Overthere, you will fine elearning courses. Take one called Aircraft recognition and performances. You will find there from the oldest type to the newest one with all photos and performances. I have learned there whatever I need.
I think, it will help you much.
I've been a tower controller for a few years and having thought about it a bit through training others, realize I have a general sort of filtering system for aircraft ID. (Often you don't realise how you do something, until you have to explain it to someone else.You just do it. This action -teaching/explaining-can work to improve - or sometimes invalidate - your own model.)
Find photos of all the aircraft you need to be able to ID. Pref including some different angles.
Obvious things to compare: No. and layout of engines, High/low bypass. Wings high/low, swept/not. Wheels, (Generally maingear) nr. of axles, nr of maingear legs. Tail, T, cruciform, regular. Dihedral?
Cabin- window shape, position (high or mid) no. of overwing (and other) emergency exits. (Eg check out the window shape on the Fellowship compared to the DC9 series) Cockpit windows, general layout, angle windscreen blends into the nose, size.
Where fitted, Airbus winglets look distinctively different from Boeing winglets.
Just glance at the whole aircraft to categorize it (eg that's a low wing narrowbody twin jet, underwing engines, or, that's a low wing jet with two underwing and one tail engine) and then go through the above list - as few or as many items as req to make a positive ID. In the above bracketed examples, a low wing narrowbody twinjet definition already eliminates many types and then draws you to the obvious "big 2" family, Boeing 73#/AirbusA 318/19/20/21. The second example makes it either a Tristar, or a DC10/MD11. Then look to the differences that you have learnt differentiate each aircraft in a similar group to ID it.
Lastly, although the post is a bit long, don't sweat it too much. If they want you, you're not going to be shown the door 'coz you couldn't tell the diff between an F28 and a DC9.
Find photos of all the aircraft you need to be able to ID. Pref including some different angles.
Obvious things to compare: No. and layout of engines, High/low bypass. Wings high/low, swept/not. Wheels, (Generally maingear) nr. of axles, nr of maingear legs. Tail, T, cruciform, regular. Dihedral?
Cabin- window shape, position (high or mid) no. of overwing (and other) emergency exits. (Eg check out the window shape on the Fellowship compared to the DC9 series) Cockpit windows, general layout, angle windscreen blends into the nose, size.
Where fitted, Airbus winglets look distinctively different from Boeing winglets.
Just glance at the whole aircraft to categorize it (eg that's a low wing narrowbody twin jet, underwing engines, or, that's a low wing jet with two underwing and one tail engine) and then go through the above list - as few or as many items as req to make a positive ID. In the above bracketed examples, a low wing narrowbody twinjet definition already eliminates many types and then draws you to the obvious "big 2" family, Boeing 73#/AirbusA 318/19/20/21. The second example makes it either a Tristar, or a DC10/MD11. Then look to the differences that you have learnt differentiate each aircraft in a similar group to ID it.
Lastly, although the post is a bit long, don't sweat it too much. If they want you, you're not going to be shown the door 'coz you couldn't tell the diff between an F28 and a DC9.
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Eurolearing
Eurocontrol aircraft performance site or elearning.eurocontrol
Recommend the above site. Although its a eurocontrol site you can register as an individual and test yourself in a number of catagories.
When you select your courses make sure you enrol role in are Web Based.
On this site you can choose Met, Law, Ac Recognition etc....good starter. And when you make it through the selection tests i recommend using this site to help you when your at the college..I did!!
Good luck
Recommend the above site. Although its a eurocontrol site you can register as an individual and test yourself in a number of catagories.
When you select your courses make sure you enrol role in are Web Based.
On this site you can choose Met, Law, Ac Recognition etc....good starter. And when you make it through the selection tests i recommend using this site to help you when your at the college..I did!!
Good luck
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Eurocontrol aircraft performance site or elearning.eurocontrol
Recommend the above site. Although its a eurocontrol site you can register as an individual and test yourself in a number of catagories.
When you select your courses make sure you enrol role in are Web Based.
On this site you can choose Met, Law, Ac Recognition etc....good starter. And when you make it through the selection tests i recommend using this site to help you when your at the college..I did!!
Good luck
Recommend the above site. Although its a eurocontrol site you can register as an individual and test yourself in a number of catagories.
When you select your courses make sure you enrol role in are Web Based.
On this site you can choose Met, Law, Ac Recognition etc....good starter. And when you make it through the selection tests i recommend using this site to help you when your at the college..I did!!
Good luck
Gee guys, thanks for ALL of the very useful replies. I'm off to the Eurocontrol sites now to do some intensive study. I realise that ID is only one part of this task, the more important part is to learn about their range, airspeed, cruising levels and operators.
I think I have a reasonable foundation of knowledge to build upon, so I won't fret too much. Like others have said, it isn't the be all and end all of the selection process. It is, however, one of the aspects that I can improve upon unlike cube tests
Cube tests might seem silly, but visualisation is pretty important, so my advice would be to spend a bit of time having a go at them. Not quite sure about the mechanism involved in being able to translate that to visualising a 3d airspace environment, but I guess it tests the same group of skills.
Bear Behind
I'm sorry, I didn't realise that you didn't know the technical names for the parts of an aircraft. Nacelle, whilst being a French word, is the accepted term for the "bit around the engine".
You asked what was your silly question - well parlez vous en Anglais was the silly question. Come on - I tried to help you but if you're just going to be sarcastic, why should anyone bother? Anyway, as you will note, 2 can play that game.
One little tip I discovered quite by accident - to tell the difference between a 737NG and a Classic (you may have to look that up), the strobes (the flashy light thingies) on an NG are co-ordinated so all flash at once. On the classics, they don't. Helpful when trying to identify a -700 or a -300.
Splitting an A318 from an A319 is a pain unless they're parked together. One little detail is that around the NLG doors (that's the door above the front wheel if we have to be basic) there are 2 strakes (little bits of sticky out metal that are quite long) - presumably for stability - that the A319 doesn't have. The A318s fin is a bit taller (the fin is the tall bit at the back of the plane) than the A319 but unless they're parked side by side then you won't really see it. The A318s rudder (does that need an explanation?) doesn't go all the way to the top of the fin but the A319s does.
You asked what was your silly question - well parlez vous en Anglais was the silly question. Come on - I tried to help you but if you're just going to be sarcastic, why should anyone bother? Anyway, as you will note, 2 can play that game.
One little tip I discovered quite by accident - to tell the difference between a 737NG and a Classic (you may have to look that up), the strobes (the flashy light thingies) on an NG are co-ordinated so all flash at once. On the classics, they don't. Helpful when trying to identify a -700 or a -300.
Splitting an A318 from an A319 is a pain unless they're parked together. One little detail is that around the NLG doors (that's the door above the front wheel if we have to be basic) there are 2 strakes (little bits of sticky out metal that are quite long) - presumably for stability - that the A319 doesn't have. The A318s fin is a bit taller (the fin is the tall bit at the back of the plane) than the A319 but unless they're parked side by side then you won't really see it. The A318s rudder (does that need an explanation?) doesn't go all the way to the top of the fin but the A319s does.