IFR sector service limits in the UK

[IRpilot2006]

I have an IR and fly both VFR and IFR in the European enroute airway system, piston SEP.

The curious thing is that you can fly VFR through say Belgium, say at FL075 (Class C perhaps) and get a service from Brussels, from apparently the same controller who would talk to you if you were going through there IFR at FL150. In both cases they give you what is pretty obviously a radar service, and vectors if they need to. He has obviously got your VFR route on his computer..

A very smooth kind of system.

Whereas here in the UK, this doesn't seem to work.

If you fly VFR in G and call up London Control, they will tell you to b*gger off, politely of course. Well, this is what everybody assumes; I have never tried it myself and don't intend to. Like most people, I fly in Class G with no service, or possibly with some sort of LARS if I can get it.

I have some questions for ATC:

Let's say you have the IMC Rating, which allows you to fly IFR (UK only, not in Class A). It is possible, with some considerable effort, to file a Eurocontrol-accepted IFR flight plan through a bit of the UK without going into Class A. But ATC won't know that you have no Class A privileges. What would happen if you got vectored off your filed route? I know of somebody who actually did this, in perfect ignorance of reality, and LC got extremely confused when told he could not go into Class A.

Why do we have this highly divided system in the UK?

Currently, if you file an IFR flight plan (through your local airfield facilities, like most PPLs seem to do) it gets addressed like it was VFR i.e. dep, dest and possibly enroute FIS. So there is no implied airways-style enroute clearance. If you turn up at a piece of Class D, the controller knows nothing about you and you have to beg for a transit. Occassionally, perhaps according to how non-slick your radio work is, it gets refused and you have to dogleg. The "advantage" is that nobody checks the IFR flight plan; it could be routed through a bunch of villages for all anybody cares. But if you know what you are doing, say you use homebriefing.com, you can file it through Eurocontrol and if the route was accepted then every ATS unit enroute should know about you and you should have the highly desired enroute clearance. There are also ways to get a FP through Eurocontrol with minimal route checking, by using DCTs or the term "GAT".

An example would be an IFR flight from Lydd to Scilly Isles at FL050. It can be done wholly in G+D. Currently, Solent/Bournemouth can refuse a transit. But if you managed to get the route through CFMU then you should sail through. But LC will probably give you a climb to SAM to FL100, to clear the traffic below, which would take you into Class A which you can't go into.

Comments?

[Spitoon]

Originally Posted by IRpilot2006

Let's say you have the IMC Rating, which allows you to fly IFR (UK only, not in Class A). It is possible, with some considerable effort, to file a Eurocontrol-accepted IFR flight plan through a bit of the UK without going into Class A. But ATC won't know that you have no Class A privileges. What would happen if you got vectored off your filed route? I know of somebody who actually did this, in perfect ignorance of reality, and LC got extremely confused when told he could not go into Class A.
Why do we have this highly divided system in the UK?

No simple answer but I guess it's just a historical thing. Each State grew up with its own interpretation of the ICAO rules. Things are changing in Europe now and in a few years you might see a homogenous system across the region.

Originally Posted by IRpilot2006

Currently, if you file an IFR flight plan (through your local airfield facilities, like most PPLs seem to do) it gets addressed like it was VFR i.e. dep, dest and possibly enroute FIS. So there is no implied airways-style enroute clearance. If you turn up at a piece of Class D, the controller knows nothing about you and you have to beg for a transit.

I think - but stand to be corrected - that this is not strictly true. If your route is along ATS routes it will go to the ACC but if you beacon hop outside CAS you are probably right. It's many years since I was doing such stuff - my memory now fails me all too often and the system has changed, but kind souls addressing off-route FPLs did sometimes address them to units that were along the route (but if you were going international the standard addresses were used).

Originally Posted by IRpilot2006

But if you know what you are doing, say you use homebriefing.com, you can file it through Eurocontrol and if the route was accepted then every ATS unit enroute should know about you and you should have the highly desired enroute clearance. There are also ways to get a FP through Eurocontrol with minimal route checking, by using DCTs or the term "GAT".
An example would be an IFR flight from Lydd to Scilly Isles at FL050. It can be done wholly in G+D. Currently, Solent/Bournemouth can refuse a transit. But if you managed to get the route through CFMU then you should sail through. But LC will probably give you a climb to SAM to FL100, to clear the traffic below, which would take you into Class A which you can't go into.
Comments?

I'm not really qualified to answer in detail but the reason that off-route is difficult is that there is no practical way to be assured that you will be cleared through whatever CAS you have planned along the way. The system just is not designed for this - this is why your departure clearance will be to the boundary of the CTR/CTA/TMA around your departure aerodrome only, after that the system cannot give any assurance that you will get the clearances you want. I would guess that the system is designed around the ICAO system in which there is very little provision for IFR flights outside ATS routes (which, when established, should be protected by CAS).

[Toadpool]

I think Spitoon has answered most of the queries better than I could.

I would like to make one observation - Lydd to the Isles of Scilly at FL50 is not IFR. It's completely the wrong quadrantal, it should be FL40 or 60.

[DFC]

It would be very wrong for the airfield of departure (or whoever you used to file the plan) not to address an IFR plan to the two IFPS (Eurocontrol) addresses.

You can even (very rarely) find that although the majority of the flight is outside controlled airspace, a slot time will be issued!

Why a slot time? Well the bit of controlled airsapace that you plan to cross could have flow restrictions in force.

I do not believe that Southampton or Bournemouth can refuse you an IFR routing through the airspace - there is no minimum overflight level published for the solent CTA as far as I remember. If the airspace will be too busy then flow control measures will be in force and you will get a slot which you have to comply with. Otherwise, a short delay or a vector will get you across the airspace.

Regards,

DFC

[vintage ATCO]

If you are IFR off airways in the UK it is probably better than the FPL is addressed as if it it is VFR. Addressing it to the two IFPS addresses is correct but that will not faciltate crossing clearance of any Class D you may find along the route. Neither is sending it manually to any en-route airfields. Few, if any, will take any action upon receipt, but would rather wait for the 'free call' when you call. Sorry, but it just the way the system has been 'brung up'.

[IRpilot2006]

I would like to make one observation - Lydd to the Isles of Scilly at FL50 is not IFR. It's completely the wrong quadrantal, it should be FL40 or 60

Not if the flight is under ATS control i.e. a radar control service, then any level is OK. I routinely fly at FL100, 110, 120, 130 .... 180 all in the same direction.

It would be very wrong for the airfield of departure (or whoever you used to file the plan) not to address an IFR plan to the two IFPS (Eurocontrol) addresses.

That doesn't bear much relation to reality, in the UK.

If you are IFR off airways in the UK it is probably better than the FPL is addressed as if it it is VFR.

That's what normally happens, in the rare cases where somebody flying within the UK on the IMC Rating files an IFR flight plan.

Addressing it to the two IFPS addresses is correct but that will not faciltate crossing clearance of any Class D you may find along the route.

I wonder why? Surely any flight plan sent to Eurocontrol goes to all the sector controllers? What exactly is it that achieves the implicit enroute clearance?

Neither is sending it manually to any en-route airfields. Few, if any, will take any action upon receipt, but would rather wait for the 'free call' when you call.

That I can see allright.

[Spitoon]

Originally Posted by IRpilot2006

Addressing it to the two IFPS addresses is correct but that will not faciltate crossing clearance of any Class D you may find along the route.

I wonder why? Surely any flight plan sent to Eurocontrol goes to all the sector controllers? What exactly is it that achieves the implicit enroute clearance?

I'm not aware of the system enough to be sure but I think you'll find that the main reason an off-route IFR plan goes to Eurocontrol is so that you can be sent a bill for route charges if they are applicable to the flight. As for going to all of the sectors - I don't know about ACCs (which are where 'sectors' are usually controlled from), but I don't think a plan will find it way to a CTA or TMA unit that way.

[bookworm]

Originally Posted by IRpilot2006

Surely any flight plan sent to Eurocontrol goes to all the sector controllers? What exactly is it that achieves the implicit enroute clearance?

The "implicit enroute clearance" is achieved by remaining in controlled airspace throughout the flight. If you leave controlled airspace, you need a new clearance to reenter.

The CFMU will anticipate the flight passing through standard airway sectors, without a detailed knowledge of what goes on at low level. It doesn't anticipate that at FL50 you will be talking to Solent rather than London, which looks after the airspace above.