Director V Approach
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Director V Approach
Hi,
Basic question and please excuse my ignorance, but sometimes for example flying into LPL we use director and then are handed off to the tower, but 95% of the time it's approach and then on to tower.
Both guys seem to do the same job! So what's the difference between the two?
MK
Basic question and please excuse my ignorance, but sometimes for example flying into LPL we use director and then are handed off to the tower, but 95% of the time it's approach and then on to tower.
Both guys seem to do the same job! So what's the difference between the two?
MK
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure where LPL is - don't understand your banter old man!
"Approach" is usually a procedural controller who may descend you in the hold, read the weather, etc., but not vector you on radar. "Director" is a radar controller. At many places "Approach" has all but ceased to exist as all the controllers have radar in front of them so, technically, they could all be Directors. Back when... controllers providing the Approach service may not have had radar ratings but at most major airfields nowadays controllers providing the Approach Radar service will hold all the necessary ratings. Hope that makes sense; it's as plain as mud to me!
A current ATCO will undoubtedly provide the latest gen.
"Approach" is usually a procedural controller who may descend you in the hold, read the weather, etc., but not vector you on radar. "Director" is a radar controller. At many places "Approach" has all but ceased to exist as all the controllers have radar in front of them so, technically, they could all be Directors. Back when... controllers providing the Approach service may not have had radar ratings but at most major airfields nowadays controllers providing the Approach Radar service will hold all the necessary ratings. Hope that makes sense; it's as plain as mud to me!
A current ATCO will undoubtedly provide the latest gen.
aceatco, retired
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: one airshow or another
Posts: 1,431
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by michaelknight
Both guys seem to do the same job! So what's the difference between the two?
Confused? You soon will be!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At LPL (EGGP)
Approach Radar on 119.85 is IFR and VFR controlled by one controller.
Staff and traffic permitting we open Director 118.45 to work the IFR aircraft while on 119.85 Approach Radar is controlling the VFR. Therefore an VFR IFR split.
However occasionally Director (118.45) will open for a just a short time to help the Approach Radar controller out with final directing.
So not as mentioned above (which unlike Liverpool is how it works at most units)
Approach Radar on 119.85 is IFR and VFR controlled by one controller.
Staff and traffic permitting we open Director 118.45 to work the IFR aircraft while on 119.85 Approach Radar is controlling the VFR. Therefore an VFR IFR split.
However occasionally Director (118.45) will open for a just a short time to help the Approach Radar controller out with final directing.
So not as mentioned above (which unlike Liverpool is how it works at most units)
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Scotland
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All airports of my experience (not LTMA) seem to operate in a generally similar way to that described by ATCO1979 above. The Approach controller does the approach functions of VFR stuff, oubound releases when required, initial vectoring and sequencing of inbounds etc etc, and has overall executive responsibility for the approach control tasks. "Director" purely works the final part of the radar sequence. Very useful to share the workload when it's busy and you're trying to judge the final turn-on to the ILS to fine tolerances. Using two frequencies keeps the R/T loading down, which is good for everybody.
I say there boy
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In theory Approach is a procedural approach service, Radar is a radar approach service, and Director does the final radar sequencing of inbound IFR traffic.
As with all good theories, real life in many places is completely different to this, but the principle roughly stands. I have a feeling that there aren't too many other countries that use the callsign Director in this way (Australia?)
As with all good theories, real life in many places is completely different to this, but the principle roughly stands. I have a feeling that there aren't too many other countries that use the callsign Director in this way (Australia?)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: USA
Age: 67
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by foghorn
In theory Approach is a procedural approach service, Radar is a radar approach service, and Director does the final radar sequencing of inbound IFR traffic.
As with all good theories, real life in many places is completely different to this, but the principle roughly stands. I have a feeling that there aren't too many other countries that use the callsign Director in this way (Australia?)
As with all good theories, real life in many places is completely different to this, but the principle roughly stands. I have a feeling that there aren't too many other countries that use the callsign Director in this way (Australia?)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: USA
Age: 67
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by foghorn
Sorry, to make it clear there's an implicit UK-bias in my post 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Springfield
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Director is used in Australia, at least in Sydney where they are the finals controller. Two directors are used during busy periods, each controlling one side of the circuit. Additional PRM controllers (LLZ monitors) are used for IMC independent approaches to close-spaced parallel runways.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At Heathrow, the "Directors" are and always have been the radar controllers. In days past the Approach Controller would run the stacks, etc but the Directors would vector the aircraft off the stacks and onto the ILS. In busy periods 3 would be used - one North, one South and another one who took over with the aircraft downwind and put them on the ILS.
In days past, controllers would progress through their validations in Approach Control by doing the Approach rating followed by the Approach Radar (TRaffic Director) rating. Woe betide any lowly approach man who dared to look over the Director's shoulder. In Heathrow (London in those days) Approach there used to be a screen which could be pulled out between the approach desk and the radar position. Some said ti was to reduce the glare on the radar tube........
The current system with London area airports is that all the controllers are radar directors and the separate approach control function hardly exists.
In days past, controllers would progress through their validations in Approach Control by doing the Approach rating followed by the Approach Radar (TRaffic Director) rating. Woe betide any lowly approach man who dared to look over the Director's shoulder. In Heathrow (London in those days) Approach there used to be a screen which could be pulled out between the approach desk and the radar position. Some said ti was to reduce the glare on the radar tube........
The current system with London area airports is that all the controllers are radar directors and the separate approach control function hardly exists.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Here there and everywhere
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By the sounds of things, if both the Approach and Director do the same job then.....
In busy traffic Approach is a radar service handling all IFR transits and VFR flights in the vicinty of the Aerodrome and Director is sequencing all IFR inbounds for the ILS
In light traffic both services are combined onto the one frequency which will be Approach.
If you don't recieve radar vectors when talking to Approach and you self position to establish on the ILS etc, then it is indeed a procedural service and may be because the radar is switched off and/or the service you are receiving is combined with with the Tower control position due to staffing.
This is because you can control in tower and provide a procedural service at the same time...
BUT
...You are not legally allowed to provide a radar service while working in the tower position
(However you may be identified (sqawk ident) so that you can be monitored on an ATM in the tower, as long as a radar service is not provided and the pilot is informed).
As for lowly approach controllers, procedural approach is a black art and a forgotten skill in todays air traffic and is often harder to accomplish well than radar vectoring.
What happens when you turn off the radar?
PANICK!!!!!
In busy traffic Approach is a radar service handling all IFR transits and VFR flights in the vicinty of the Aerodrome and Director is sequencing all IFR inbounds for the ILS
In light traffic both services are combined onto the one frequency which will be Approach.
If you don't recieve radar vectors when talking to Approach and you self position to establish on the ILS etc, then it is indeed a procedural service and may be because the radar is switched off and/or the service you are receiving is combined with with the Tower control position due to staffing.
This is because you can control in tower and provide a procedural service at the same time...
BUT
...You are not legally allowed to provide a radar service while working in the tower position
(However you may be identified (sqawk ident) so that you can be monitored on an ATM in the tower, as long as a radar service is not provided and the pilot is informed).
As for lowly approach controllers, procedural approach is a black art and a forgotten skill in todays air traffic and is often harder to accomplish well than radar vectoring.
What happens when you turn off the radar?
PANICK!!!!!
