Military LARS units: radar/zone/approach?

[NorthSouth]

I regularly fly with a FIS from a military LARS unit while operating in their area but outside their MATZ. I always call them "Radar" but what they call themselves seems to change daily. Sometimes they reply as "Radar" but frequently they call themselves "Zone" and the other day they replied as "Approach". The controller was also describing himself to other traffic as "Departures".

Is this because of bandboxing? If so, what determines what the controller calls himself? If he's doing the LARS function but is also the Zone controller, what determines whether he calls himself 'Zone' instead of 'Radar'?

NS

[chevvron]

Have you seen the entry for Northolt in the RAF supplement? They list Approach, Director, Talkdown, Tower and Departures, all with their own specific VHF frequency. Now I wonder how many movements per day they handle (not a LARS or MATZ penetration unit remember).

[NorthSouth]

OK, but all those services have their own discrete UHF and VHF freqs, so presumably they are never in a situation of providing e.g. Zone and Approach on same freq with attendant self-identity confusion?
NS

[tmmorris]

I'm sure a mil ATCO will be along in a minute, but my understanding is that what they call themselves depends on what desk they're sitting at, not what frequency they're on. Consequently you might find that usually LARS is provided by the Zone controller, but occasionally this responsibility is taken by Approach, Departure, or whatever, and that controller takes over that frequency. Remember that the VHF frequencies are usually secondary i.e. they will primarily be operating one of a number of UHF frequencies. Indeed, where I fly they have a 'gash' frequency for anything they need it for - when I come in on a PAR I first call Zone to request it, then they put me onto the gash frequency where I talk to Approach and then Talkdown without changing frequency. I only change again once I have vacated the runway (at which point last time the lady in question forgot herself and invited me to 'contact tower, stud 2', having presumably forgotten I was civilian traffic!)

Tim

[aluminium persuader]

Hello chaps. Here you go.

It's a mil thing. At a mil unit you have to be prepared for all hell to break loose at any moment with multiple recoveries in various states of serviceability. As one of you said, each of those mil callsigns is a different freq and is generally as follows;

"XXX tower "- obvious
"XXX Zone" - VHF transit traffic
"XXX approach "- approach radar (mil don't do the procedural thing). Working outbounds & initial contact for inbounds.
"XXX director" - again radar. Taking the inbounds from approach round the radar pattern & feeding them in to ...
"XXXtalkdown" who does the PAR or ILS monitor.

Zone, Approach & Director may all be performed by one person when traffic permits, but be advised - he will be working at least two separate frequencies so listen carefully to what's being said before you jump in. Just because you don't hear someone reply doesn't mean they're not doing so.


Civvy-wise;

"YYY approach" is a procedural approach unit
"YYY radar" is an approach radar unit.
"YYY director" is the same function as for mil.

Generally, "approach" would be the default. As transit traffic increases a fresh bod would be wheeled into place to open Zone. As arrivals increase yet another eager chap will open "Director". "Talkdown" operates as required. Hope that answers your question!

ap