RT standards
Avoid imitations
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RT standards
Is it just me - or has the general standard of R/T in UK degenerated recently?
For example, what should be a fairly straightforward call for a FIS takes some pilots four or five calls to complete, with incorrect phraseology, multiple "say agains" and possibly worst of all - those who ask for a service and then almost immediately fail to listen out, causing ATC to repeatedly try to regain contact.
After listening to very many instances of this sort of stuff during my twelve sectors today, my head really hurts!
There seemed to be a number of grumpy sounding ATCOs trying to sort this lot out today, so I think it's probably a rhetorical question....... but I wonder how you ATC folk sometimes keep as calm as you do!
For example, what should be a fairly straightforward call for a FIS takes some pilots four or five calls to complete, with incorrect phraseology, multiple "say agains" and possibly worst of all - those who ask for a service and then almost immediately fail to listen out, causing ATC to repeatedly try to regain contact.
After listening to very many instances of this sort of stuff during my twelve sectors today, my head really hurts!
There seemed to be a number of grumpy sounding ATCOs trying to sort this lot out today, so I think it's probably a rhetorical question....... but I wonder how you ATC folk sometimes keep as calm as you do!
More than just an ATCO
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The calm is often an illusion. If there's a delay between an obviously stupid question and the answer there is a high probability that the subject of the ques toner's parentage has been raised. Fortunately most controllers quickly learn to do this, compose themselves and reply in a professional manner within milliseconds. Of course, this calm all goes out the window when a helpful colleague puts his size 12s on the foot switch during the rant.
However, to answer your original question, yes, it s going downhill worldwide as a result of, originally CB terminology, and lately, text-speak,
However, to answer your original question, yes, it s going downhill worldwide as a result of, originally CB terminology, and lately, text-speak,
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They rumoured a while back that there would be microphones installed on the ATC positions to pick up the background conversations and hopefully gain more insight during investigations. Gladly so far this has not been done so no-one can hear some of the slagging offs we give to poor/sloppy RTF etc when the mic is closed our end. You just have to hope that the counterpart sat next to you doesn't "rest" their foot on the transmit switch during your rant 
just cause you can't hear it doesn't mean it doesn't happen 
just cause you can't hear it doesn't mean it doesn't happen
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ShyTorque, do you mean RT standards across the whole of UK aviation or amongst the GA fraternity?
In GA it can be terrible particularly amongst the PPLs, I don't think Instructors put as much emphasis on RT training as they used to.
But, on the commercial side, as far as i'm concerned the general standard of pilots and ATC r/t is higher in the UK than anywhere else i've flown around the world.
In GA it can be terrible particularly amongst the PPLs, I don't think Instructors put as much emphasis on RT training as they used to.
But, on the commercial side, as far as i'm concerned the general standard of pilots and ATC r/t is higher in the UK than anywhere else i've flown around the world.
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Could it be in part due to the pedantry which has been imposed on all concerned?
I often hear things such as 'G**, changing to *******, on ***.***', only to hear an unfortunate ATCO having to repeat the whole thing back, preceded by 'freecall'. Surely, it would make more sense to just say 'goodbye' unless there was an error in the original call.
I often hear things such as 'G**, changing to *******, on ***.***', only to hear an unfortunate ATCO having to repeat the whole thing back, preceded by 'freecall'. Surely, it would make more sense to just say 'goodbye' unless there was an error in the original call.
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Originally Posted by 2 sheds
Frostbite
Don't quite understand your scenario - what pedantry?
Don't quite understand your scenario - what pedantry?
Where the departing aircraft has stated clearly and correctly where he is going, only to have it repeated, chapter & verse, back to him as an instruction.
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frostbite... I never heard such a thing, nor did I ever do it. I am not aware of anything like that which an ATCO is required to read-back to a pilot. Where did you hear that?
Exactly - if the airspace and the ATS are such that the pilot is entitled to decide when and to which frequency to change, there is only one required response - "(callsign) - Roger", or even, just (C/S).
Which unit(s) are you quoting? Sure it's not some amateurish A/G station?
Which unit(s) are you quoting? Sure it's not some amateurish A/G station?
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I find R/T discipline shocking. But It isn't confined to just new pilots. Some of the so called more seasoned and even professional pilots have very poor R/T.
Quite often it seems if people just think before they speak, that would half the problem.
Knowing which repsonses are mandatory, and which ones will suffice a 'Roger' or ' wilco' response would also help.
Hey ho
Quite often it seems if people just think before they speak, that would half the problem.
Knowing which repsonses are mandatory, and which ones will suffice a 'Roger' or ' wilco' response would also help.
Hey ho
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As an antipodeon aviator, I have to chuckle sometimes...there are some peeps about who seem to think that good R/T discipline requires "a plum in ones mouth" when really all that is required is a working knowledge of CAP 413...and it aint a particularly tough read
when really all that is required is a working knowledge of CAP 413...and it aint a particularly tough read
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Perhaps not the same as ATC but overhead on Prestwick Handling at the weekend on VHF 129.7MHz was two clowns, one presumes groundcrew talking to his mate, effing and blinding and comparing some chap as "that c*** who looks like Dick Dastardly".
There are some things you just don't do. Mind you he was on the flightdeck of a parked Ryanair B737 so perhaps it's contagious.
There are some things you just don't do. Mind you he was on the flightdeck of a parked Ryanair B737 so perhaps it's contagious.
