nav canada
Guest
Posts: n/a
nav canada
hi guys,
is there anyone on here from nav canada,or even better has made the move from the uk over the pond?
i have an aerodrome and area rating and currently spend my days at a certain london tma......
any pm's would be greatfully welcomed as i have a few questions i would like to ask away from the eyes of the public forums on the issues of employment.
w
is there anyone on here from nav canada,or even better has made the move from the uk over the pond?
i have an aerodrome and area rating and currently spend my days at a certain london tma......
any pm's would be greatfully welcomed as i have a few questions i would like to ask away from the eyes of the public forums on the issues of employment.
w
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: YYZ via the UK
Age: 49
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wizad
If you work for NATS you will find it EXTREMELY difficult to transfer at this point in time due to "political" reasons!
I think I was the last NATS guy to transfer and I had to jump through hoops!
PM me for info.
If you don't work for NATS right now..then it should be straightforward enough if you can pass the controller interviews they do here and there are enough Brits over here now that you could probably get the whole paper and interview in advance from us and enough advice to keep you going
If you work for NATS you will find it EXTREMELY difficult to transfer at this point in time due to "political" reasons!
I think I was the last NATS guy to transfer and I had to jump through hoops!
PM me for info.
If you don't work for NATS right now..then it should be straightforward enough if you can pass the controller interviews they do here and there are enough Brits over here now that you could probably get the whole paper and interview in advance from us and enough advice to keep you going
Ohcirrej
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: This is the internet FFS.........
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Wizad,
I haven't heard much from the "Experienced Controller Program" here in Canada at the moment. The lovely lady who was the focal point for it has recently left for greener pastures and I'm not sure who the new person is.
Chances are if you work in a certain London TMA, you worked with me. PM away.
I haven't heard much from the "Experienced Controller Program" here in Canada at the moment. The lovely lady who was the focal point for it has recently left for greener pastures and I'm not sure who the new person is.
Chances are if you work in a certain London TMA, you worked with me. PM away.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Toronto
Age: 57
Posts: 531
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've been at YYZ Tower for 3 years now and still loving every minute of it. It has gone relatively quiet as far as offshore hires goes. We've got an ex-USAF guy started here recently, so openings are still available. The "agreement" between NC and NATS is probably still there, but be persistent and I'm sure they'll listen.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The World
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was under the impression that most NATS recruits came and went scurrying back. Well done to those that made it.
I did hear a rumour that a Norwegian from Oslo has been offered YVR ACC next year.....
As for the 'lovely lady' in recruitment. She's now at Transport Canada.
I did hear a rumour that a Norwegian from Oslo has been offered YVR ACC next year.....
As for the 'lovely lady' in recruitment. She's now at Transport Canada.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: YYZ via the UK
Age: 49
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guy from Auckland approach to start in YYZ terminal in the autumn aswell I believe.
The NATS recruits that came "scurrying" back from what I heard fell foul of when the system over here was a bit of a mess regarding training and the like. Since I have been over here in YYZ NAV Canada have bent over backwards to help me and training has been a priority for them. None of the scare stories I heard came to fruition.
I am sure Jerricho and cossack and all the rest would agree with me. If you can somehow bypass the "agreement" (which is still in place!) you will find an excellent country to live in and not a bad wee company aswell.
Better logo also!
The NATS recruits that came "scurrying" back from what I heard fell foul of when the system over here was a bit of a mess regarding training and the like. Since I have been over here in YYZ NAV Canada have bent over backwards to help me and training has been a priority for them. None of the scare stories I heard came to fruition.
I am sure Jerricho and cossack and all the rest would agree with me. If you can somehow bypass the "agreement" (which is still in place!) you will find an excellent country to live in and not a bad wee company aswell.
Better logo also!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Three steps from reality
Age: 52
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Before heading west, make sure you have all the facts!
Good points:-
Canada is a great country to live in, and probably a much better place to raise kids than the UK.
The money goes a long way here.
Canadians are, for the most part, much more friendly and helpful than most Brits, and that goes for businesses and even some governmental office types as well as neighbours and service-industry people.
Controllers seem to have more fun at work than in the UK.
Bad points:-
Training, especially in Edmonton ACC.
The seniority system - you will be at the bottom of the leave roster for years.
Leave entitlement sucks.
Having to "earn" sick leave.
Procedural control is a reality here, and in even in the terminal environment there's more procedural separation applied (mainly with trainers doing approaches to satellite airfields) than you might expect.
Edmonton ACC has the worst reputation among the centres for morale and training, followed by Winnipeg. My advice is to go to either Toronto or Moncton Centre (at the latter, you'll get a HUGE house for decent money) or to go to a tower where, in general, they seem to have more fun despite less money.
Good points:-
Canada is a great country to live in, and probably a much better place to raise kids than the UK.
The money goes a long way here.
Canadians are, for the most part, much more friendly and helpful than most Brits, and that goes for businesses and even some governmental office types as well as neighbours and service-industry people.
Controllers seem to have more fun at work than in the UK.
Bad points:-
Training, especially in Edmonton ACC.
The seniority system - you will be at the bottom of the leave roster for years.
Leave entitlement sucks.
Having to "earn" sick leave.
Procedural control is a reality here, and in even in the terminal environment there's more procedural separation applied (mainly with trainers doing approaches to satellite airfields) than you might expect.
Edmonton ACC has the worst reputation among the centres for morale and training, followed by Winnipeg. My advice is to go to either Toronto or Moncton Centre (at the latter, you'll get a HUGE house for decent money) or to go to a tower where, in general, they seem to have more fun despite less money.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Toronto
Age: 57
Posts: 531
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with what LnL says for positives.
I still am and got all the leave I was after for the second year running!
Its not the same as NATS but I've got no complaints. Its better than the USA for sure.
Not all towers earn less money you know!
The seniority system - you will be at the bottom of the leave roster for years.
Leave entitlement sucks.
or to go to a tower where, in general, they seem to have more fun despite less money.
Ohcirrej
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: This is the internet FFS.........
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll third comments regarding the "seniority" system. I was never made full aware of how it worked until I started (yes, that is my fault) and the implications it can have (believe me, you can get screwed over very easily when it comes to taking leave).
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: southampton
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Several of my friends went to Canada acc's. Have spoke to 3 of them that came back and asked the reasons why they returned...
They said basically the treatment they get is horrendous. You are not allowed to sit on the same table in the canteen as valid ATCO's. Under no circumstances should you EVER change the channel on the TV and so on. One of my friends turned up at a validation drinks party to be told he was not welcome as he was a "Trainee"!!!
Told him "Now you know what it feels like to be an ATSA!!". He said we get treated better!!
They have no SRATCO, and most do overtime getting only one or two days off a month (through choice). So if they keep validating new controllers the overtime will dissappear (in their eyes). Hence the reason for their treatment.
You have been warned!!
If anyone else know's different then add a post...
They said basically the treatment they get is horrendous. You are not allowed to sit on the same table in the canteen as valid ATCO's. Under no circumstances should you EVER change the channel on the TV and so on. One of my friends turned up at a validation drinks party to be told he was not welcome as he was a "Trainee"!!!
Told him "Now you know what it feels like to be an ATSA!!". He said we get treated better!!
They have no SRATCO, and most do overtime getting only one or two days off a month (through choice). So if they keep validating new controllers the overtime will dissappear (in their eyes). Hence the reason for their treatment.
You have been warned!!
If anyone else know's different then add a post...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: YYZ via the UK
Age: 49
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The unit that got all the scare stories was Edmonton. A couple of my friends who came back had been posted there. I know NAV Canada has made a concerted effort to clean up that side of things.
YYZ is nothing like that...and I have heard good stories about YVR aswell. Maybe Jerricho can elaborate on YWG?
If you are coming over as an experienced controller you have nothing to worry about as you may have been in the game longer than some of your colleagues. They do respect that over here (in YYZ anyway).
However you are still starting as a trainee and it dosen't matter where you are in the world it still means that you have to accept that you "know less" than before and you aren't as senior as you may have been back home. If you want to put your head above the parapet and act like a and be a know it all then I'm sure the reaction would be the same at West Drayton as it would be in Canada.
Act like a professional and I have found they treat you like one here.
YYZ is nothing like that...and I have heard good stories about YVR aswell. Maybe Jerricho can elaborate on YWG?
If you are coming over as an experienced controller you have nothing to worry about as you may have been in the game longer than some of your colleagues. They do respect that over here (in YYZ anyway).
However you are still starting as a trainee and it dosen't matter where you are in the world it still means that you have to accept that you "know less" than before and you aren't as senior as you may have been back home. If you want to put your head above the parapet and act like a and be a know it all then I'm sure the reaction would be the same at West Drayton as it would be in Canada.
Act like a professional and I have found they treat you like one here.
Ohcirrej
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: This is the internet FFS.........
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Married a Canadian
Act like a professional and I have found they treat you like one here.
However, I have unfortunately witnessed similar attitudes as outlined by Mr ATSA_Grunt. Here in YWG there is the "trainee couch" at the back of the TV room where the ab-initios sit and madly study their ManOps. It's also deemed unacceptable for a trainee to attend a check-out party, even if it was his/her best mate (the check-out party itself is a strange concept for an import like me, but that's another story)
It seems to be a self-perpetuating problem and a strange one at that. It's not written down anywhere nor would anyone actually openly support the attitude, but it's there. And from what I can gather, it always has been. I find it strange as Nav Canada are very forthright in making all staff aware of the Code of Conduct, Respectful Workplace and alike, yet stuff like this seems to be ingrained to the core. I'll bet there hasn't been one trainee that didn't think it sucked to be treated like that, but when the tables are turned...........
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Toronto
Age: 57
Posts: 531
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm also in YYZ, but not the ACC, and I was treated brilliantly from day one. I have no complaints about training or the attutudes of those around me.
I came here with 15 years experience, realising that I was going to be a trainee again. Being a trainee at anything sucks and ATC is no different. You may have done things differently where you were before, but if that's not how its done here, then don't do it like that! And certainly don't keep banging on about "we didn't do that in the UK, we did this..."
The check-out party is a strange concept to me too. There has only been one in the 3 years I've been here, mine! (joint with 2 others).
People do like the OT there's no denying that. Whether that is the reason for regulating check-outs, I doubt.
We are short of staff. Fact.
Everyone in the tower could max out every period if they wanted to. Fact.
Do trainees get canned to maintain the shortage here? No.
Why do trainees get CTd? Not able to meet the standard required. Fact.
I'm sure there are units in the UK and elsewhere where these anti-social behaviours can be found.
I came here with 15 years experience, realising that I was going to be a trainee again. Being a trainee at anything sucks and ATC is no different. You may have done things differently where you were before, but if that's not how its done here, then don't do it like that! And certainly don't keep banging on about "we didn't do that in the UK, we did this..."
The check-out party is a strange concept to me too. There has only been one in the 3 years I've been here, mine! (joint with 2 others).
People do like the OT there's no denying that. Whether that is the reason for regulating check-outs, I doubt.
We are short of staff. Fact.
Everyone in the tower could max out every period if they wanted to. Fact.
Do trainees get canned to maintain the shortage here? No.
Why do trainees get CTd? Not able to meet the standard required. Fact.
I'm sure there are units in the UK and elsewhere where these anti-social behaviours can be found.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: YYZ
Age: 50
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
do any of you (ex-UKers) that came over to Nav know if there is a similar program with NATS? LACC is on my radar and am interested in getting contact info for the people that make these decisions...
Tks
Tks
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Toronto
Age: 57
Posts: 531
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There was a thread on here about the NATS "experienced controller program". Those that contacted NATS were not exactly swamped with information and invitations to apply. Whether things have changed, I don't know.
In the past NATS have required experienced controllers to undergo the full training course. I don't know if this is still the case.
I think this was more likely a testing of the water to see how many people might be interested without actually having a program or even a plan in place.
There have been persistent rumours that NATS and Nav Can came to a "gentleman's agreement" to not recruit from NATS to Canada anymore. Whether this "agreement" would be bi-lateral, I also don't know.
It seems I don't know much!
BTW Give your head a shake for even thinking of it
In the past NATS have required experienced controllers to undergo the full training course. I don't know if this is still the case.
I think this was more likely a testing of the water to see how many people might be interested without actually having a program or even a plan in place.
There have been persistent rumours that NATS and Nav Can came to a "gentleman's agreement" to not recruit from NATS to Canada anymore. Whether this "agreement" would be bi-lateral, I also don't know.
It seems I don't know much!
BTW Give your head a shake for even thinking of it
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: YYZ
Age: 50
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by cossack
BTW Give your head a shake for even thinking of it
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Toronto
Age: 57
Posts: 531
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I were in your position, knowing what I know now, moving from here to the UK would not be a consideration.
If you do manage to get HR to acknowledge you exist, get a course (full or otherwise) and move to the UK at base of scale living in the south of England, you would not be improving your quality of life.
If you want to do it as a means of living in another country for a few years, then knock yourself out. But as a long-term career move, no.
If you do manage to get HR to acknowledge you exist, get a course (full or otherwise) and move to the UK at base of scale living in the south of England, you would not be improving your quality of life.
If you want to do it as a means of living in another country for a few years, then knock yourself out. But as a long-term career move, no.