Welcome to Nats. NOT !!!
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Welcome to Nats. NOT !!!
A word of warning to anyone whose ATC service is in the frame for a NATS takeover.
NATS took over this rocky little relic of the Empire in January, on a three year contract. Pay and conditions weren't too bad under SERCO, but the assistants were near the breadline. Right from the start we were made to jump through flaming hoops changing over to the NATS management system. We are only a small unit, with no admin staff at all, so everyone has been loaded with extra secondary duties, taking work home to comply with impossibly tight deadlines. As well as being controllers and assistants, we're all now document owners, impact assessors, QA verifiers, and God knows what other titles. Having worked our fingers to the bone to comply with the demands of our new masters, what reward do we get? Zilch! Just a few crumbs to lift the lowest assistant above the cleaner's pay? Nope! What about the NATS Staff Handbook, which lays down very detailed pay scales for ALL staff? Nah mate, not entitled! And where does the union stand in all this? In the background, cuddling up to management, wringing its hands and saying there is not enough profit in the contract to give any extra.
NATS costed their bid using SERCO's old pay scales, not their own as laid down and agreed with the unions, so under TUPE we're stuffed! Thanks Mr Barron, your new stripes suck, the new logo sucks, so does your pay policy. 
NATS took over this rocky little relic of the Empire in January, on a three year contract. Pay and conditions weren't too bad under SERCO, but the assistants were near the breadline. Right from the start we were made to jump through flaming hoops changing over to the NATS management system. We are only a small unit, with no admin staff at all, so everyone has been loaded with extra secondary duties, taking work home to comply with impossibly tight deadlines. As well as being controllers and assistants, we're all now document owners, impact assessors, QA verifiers, and God knows what other titles. Having worked our fingers to the bone to comply with the demands of our new masters, what reward do we get? Zilch! Just a few crumbs to lift the lowest assistant above the cleaner's pay? Nope! What about the NATS Staff Handbook, which lays down very detailed pay scales for ALL staff? Nah mate, not entitled! And where does the union stand in all this? In the background, cuddling up to management, wringing its hands and saying there is not enough profit in the contract to give any extra.
NATS costed their bid using SERCO's old pay scales, not their own as laid down and agreed with the unions, so under TUPE we're stuffed! Thanks Mr Barron, your new stripes suck, the new logo sucks, so does your pay policy.
Seems to be the modern management syndrome . Extra tasks , many promisses but no results . Management laughing , targets reached - aren't they good . To cap it all we were given a booklet " Dignity of the staff at work " , just leads to frustration and anger , not good in an Ops Room . Do the "managers" understand ? Nope .
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radarman
Ah! You've noticed. NATS is actually a giant management company, ATC is just a minor part of the business. Up here at Swanwick one of the senior managers doubles as a Supervisor on watch, doubles as a radar controller, doubles as a planner controller, doubles as advanced systems developer, is a human factors specialist...in fact he quadrohexotriplicates a variety of tasks simultaneously. He would be proud of you!
The rest of the workers are as human as you.......and sympathise.
Your post seems to indicate that your union is batting for the other side.....that is very unusual.....never heard of that before.......why is my nose growing longer???
Ah! You've noticed. NATS is actually a giant management company, ATC is just a minor part of the business. Up here at Swanwick one of the senior managers doubles as a Supervisor on watch, doubles as a radar controller, doubles as a planner controller, doubles as advanced systems developer, is a human factors specialist...in fact he quadrohexotriplicates a variety of tasks simultaneously. He would be proud of you!
The rest of the workers are as human as you.......and sympathise.
Your post seems to indicate that your union is batting for the other side.....that is very unusual.....never heard of that before.......why is my nose growing longer???
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<<one of the senior managers ........ doubles as a radar controller,>>
Now that is something I really would like to see........ Do you sell tickets for these events?
Now that is something I really would like to see........ Do you sell tickets for these events?
Well, if the airfield keeps closing down due to ATC sickness then I guess that NATS contract will be pretty shortlived. I hear that the Gib. government were pretty displeased!!!
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i was amazed when the decision to close the airport was taken, according to management we are not short staffed at this unit!!!! so someone must have been available to cover the sick controllers if this were true
if no one is available to cover talkdowns it has been sugested by management that we should just switch off frequencies, so as not to be distracted!!!god knows what the implication would be if we missed a distress call because our published approach frequency was switched off during opening hours
as for the atcas, they could easily make £4k a year more with better hours working for one of the many internet bookies in gib, its only their dedication, and empty promises from management that keep them in the job. some are even having to be economical with the truth in order to obtain mortgages as their wages are so poor!
it is not uncommon for them to be expected to come into the office on their days off to give new Nats inspired briefs to airfield drivers. no day in lieu or overtime is given.
the unit has been operating mainly on goodwill from its staff for months now, and sadly there is only a finite ammount of this, and its rapidly running out.
after the fanfare arrival of nats, with their chest of shiny beads and mirrors and string of empty assurances, i find myself nostalgically remembering Serco as an employer. Christ things must be bad
if no one is available to cover talkdowns it has been sugested by management that we should just switch off frequencies, so as not to be distracted!!!god knows what the implication would be if we missed a distress call because our published approach frequency was switched off during opening hours
as for the atcas, they could easily make £4k a year more with better hours working for one of the many internet bookies in gib, its only their dedication, and empty promises from management that keep them in the job. some are even having to be economical with the truth in order to obtain mortgages as their wages are so poor!
it is not uncommon for them to be expected to come into the office on their days off to give new Nats inspired briefs to airfield drivers. no day in lieu or overtime is given.
the unit has been operating mainly on goodwill from its staff for months now, and sadly there is only a finite ammount of this, and its rapidly running out.
after the fanfare arrival of nats, with their chest of shiny beads and mirrors and string of empty assurances, i find myself nostalgically remembering Serco as an employer. Christ things must be bad
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63000.
'Pretty displeased' is a slight understatement. Apoplectic would be a better word. And the local press! 'Shock closure of airfield', 'Disgraceful action by MOD.' etc etc. For heavens sake, it's the first time in at least 29 years the airport has closed for staff shortage, and only two flights got diverted.
But to get back to my original thread. At least the sickness was genuine this time, but it might not be next time. The general feeling is that we've all worked our fingers to the bone to fit our operations and administration into the NATS mould. Now we've done it the company has turned its back and told us that although we are part of the NATS empire,we don't qualify for the NATS pay structure. Morale is now pretty low, especially amongst the assistants. There is talk about taking turns to 'throw a sickie', thus allowing other staff to come in on their days off and get overtime. Never in 12 years of SERCO was this ever mentioned. As I said in my original post, be very careful and suspicious if your unit is threatened with a NATS takeover. It seems set to become a two-tier company, and I would advise present NATS members to look carefully at any future pay negotiations.
'Pretty displeased' is a slight understatement. Apoplectic would be a better word. And the local press! 'Shock closure of airfield', 'Disgraceful action by MOD.' etc etc. For heavens sake, it's the first time in at least 29 years the airport has closed for staff shortage, and only two flights got diverted.
But to get back to my original thread. At least the sickness was genuine this time, but it might not be next time. The general feeling is that we've all worked our fingers to the bone to fit our operations and administration into the NATS mould. Now we've done it the company has turned its back and told us that although we are part of the NATS empire,we don't qualify for the NATS pay structure. Morale is now pretty low, especially amongst the assistants. There is talk about taking turns to 'throw a sickie', thus allowing other staff to come in on their days off and get overtime. Never in 12 years of SERCO was this ever mentioned. As I said in my original post, be very careful and suspicious if your unit is threatened with a NATS takeover. It seems set to become a two-tier company, and I would advise present NATS members to look carefully at any future pay negotiations.
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isnt this the reason NATS brought in the Band 0 pay scale, so they could pay peanuts for the contracts they take over in the future. Out of interest are the ATCAS there on the Variable term contracts or permanent contracts, and are they stilled called ATCAS considering that grade doesnt exist on NATS pay scales
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TATC.
Funny you should mention the Band 0 pay scale. Our union rep was told by Prospect that we shouldn't press too hard for improvements as there is an unpublished Band 0, and he wouldn't advise going down that road. What exactly is Band 0, and where can we find details?
As to the ATCA contracts, everybody is still effectively on the old SERCO permanent contracts as TUPE applies. NATS have had the business now for six months, but there has been no information as to when we will ever have a NATS contract. In fact there has been b*gg*r all information about anything. Any queries about our terms and conditions are answered by one word - TUPE. All we do know is that we are working as a NATS unit, with all the associated extra duties I described in earlier posts, but getting SERCO pay. I just hope, for his sake, that Paul Barron isn't contemplating a bar-stool session here. He might find himself dumped in the middle of the bullring in La Linea. (What's it worth?
)
Funny you should mention the Band 0 pay scale. Our union rep was told by Prospect that we shouldn't press too hard for improvements as there is an unpublished Band 0, and he wouldn't advise going down that road. What exactly is Band 0, and where can we find details?
As to the ATCA contracts, everybody is still effectively on the old SERCO permanent contracts as TUPE applies. NATS have had the business now for six months, but there has been no information as to when we will ever have a NATS contract. In fact there has been b*gg*r all information about anything. Any queries about our terms and conditions are answered by one word - TUPE. All we do know is that we are working as a NATS unit, with all the associated extra duties I described in earlier posts, but getting SERCO pay. I just hope, for his sake, that Paul Barron isn't contemplating a bar-stool session here. He might find himself dumped in the middle of the bullring in La Linea. (What's it worth?
)
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TATC: Yes we're still called ATCAs @LXGB (must be so they can pay us less than ATSAs). EGXX: Pay hasn't been lowered but it hasn't been brought in line with NATS pay and it is unlikely to. Like radarman said the magic word from the powers that be seems to be TUPE.
And no we are not doing flexis at the moment.......
And no we are not doing flexis at the moment.......
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Any lawyers, accountants or business-heads out there? If a company (NATS) completes a lengthy review of its pay structure, agrees the results with the unions, and publishes the detailed figures in its staff handbook, isn't it then duty-bound to pay staff (present and future) the agreed and published figures? If so, how was NATS allowed to bid for LXGB using SERCO's salaries rather than its own (higher) costs published and agreed with Prospect? And having got the contract claim that there is not enough profit margin to pay the salaries agreed with the unions?
If NATS is using dirty tricks like this, I would warn all other staff to keep a very sharp lookout, and not take everything they see in the staff handbook as gospel. As 055166k said, NATS is now a giant management company. Don't think of it as being interested in Air Traffic or its controllers.
If NATS is using dirty tricks like this, I would warn all other staff to keep a very sharp lookout, and not take everything they see in the staff handbook as gospel. As 055166k said, NATS is now a giant management company. Don't think of it as being interested in Air Traffic or its controllers.
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Originally Posted by radarman
Any lawyers, accountants or business-heads out there? If a company (NATS) completes a lengthy review of its pay structure, agrees the results with the unions, and publishes the detailed figures in its staff handbook, isn't it then duty-bound to pay staff (present and future) the agreed and published figures? If so, how was NATS allowed to bid for LXGB using SERCO's salaries rather than its own (higher) costs published and agreed with Prospect?
Do the Gibraltar staff fall within NATS pay grades etc? I assume that they're not operating with full UK ATCO licenses (yellow one) but under some hybrid MoD licence (blue one). Therefore they are restricted in where they can work. Similarly the ATCA's are not (again this is my assumption) NATS ATSA grades and are not mobile but restricted to one place.
Would seem to me perfectly fair and reaonable that there should be different pay for those working under different terms and conditions.
I shall stand by for the attacks and flames now. Ho hum.
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Originally Posted by BDiONU
I assume that they're not operating with full UK ATCO licenses (yellow one) but under some hybrid MoD licence (blue one).
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in reply to Radarman
Just to throw this into the debate - The pay scales as per the NATS intraweb have the specific units that are on each pay band written down on the appropriate Excel spreadsheet page.
As they were negotiated with the names already down on individual paybands, would any new units i.e. Gibraltar, be exempt from access onto these pay scales because they are not down in black and white??
Not saying it is fair by any means - just wondering how the company is managing to weasel out of paying Gib a recognised NATS payscale (even if it's band 1)..
Maybe the fact that units are mentioned by name next to pay bands gives them a get out clause for any new units.
What are the unions doing about it?? Surely they should be fighting for equal rights (they maybe are - it's just not very public if it's the case).
At least they have not cut wages... yet.
I would not trust this current management one iota - they are not interested in their number one asset - people, They are too busy waving their willies about and trying to outdo each other with the next new wave management babble.
Beware of the pensions.........
Just to throw this into the debate - The pay scales as per the NATS intraweb have the specific units that are on each pay band written down on the appropriate Excel spreadsheet page.
As they were negotiated with the names already down on individual paybands, would any new units i.e. Gibraltar, be exempt from access onto these pay scales because they are not down in black and white??
Not saying it is fair by any means - just wondering how the company is managing to weasel out of paying Gib a recognised NATS payscale (even if it's band 1)..
Maybe the fact that units are mentioned by name next to pay bands gives them a get out clause for any new units.
What are the unions doing about it?? Surely they should be fighting for equal rights (they maybe are - it's just not very public if it's the case).
At least they have not cut wages... yet.
I would not trust this current management one iota - they are not interested in their number one asset - people, They are too busy waving their willies about and trying to outdo each other with the next new wave management babble.
Beware of the pensions.........
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts so far.
BDiONU and Chilli Monster. The current Gib licence situation is far from clear. Up till eighteen months ago we had the old UK style yellow licences (not the really old ones with yellow tie-laces, although I've still got mine). Then there was a bit of a diplomatic hiatus concerning the ANO (Overseas Territories) Act, and the governor (God bless him!) exempted us from the requirement to hold a licence at all. ???????? Now we have the latest style UK licence, but it only has the ratings, which have not been validated. We also have ASSI licences, which will be our operating licence when ASSI take over regulation. But they're not due to do that until the end of June, so at the time of writing we are still operating on the governor's exemption. I think. A well known ex-CAA inspector is coming later this month as an ASSI consultant to do a full inspection and check the LCE/TRUCE paperwork, but since we still won't have a legal regulator by then, I don't quite know what the basis for his inspection will be. Oh, I forgot to mention our operations are based on JSP552, not MATS Pt 1. 
Confused? So am I. (Mods- sorry about thread drift)
BDiONU and Chilli Monster. The current Gib licence situation is far from clear. Up till eighteen months ago we had the old UK style yellow licences (not the really old ones with yellow tie-laces, although I've still got mine). Then there was a bit of a diplomatic hiatus concerning the ANO (Overseas Territories) Act, and the governor (God bless him!) exempted us from the requirement to hold a licence at all. ????????
Now we have the latest style UK licence, but it only has the ratings, which have not been validated. We also have ASSI licences, which will be our operating licence when ASSI take over regulation. But they're not due to do that until the end of June, so at the time of writing we are still operating on the governor's exemption. I think. A well known ex-CAA inspector is coming later this month as an ASSI consultant to do a full inspection and check the LCE/TRUCE paperwork, but since we still won't have a legal regulator by then, I don't quite know what the basis for his inspection will be. Oh, I forgot to mention our operations are based on JSP552, not MATS Pt 1. Confused? So am I. (Mods- sorry about thread drift)
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Originally Posted by radarman
The current Gib licence situation is far from clear. <snip>Oh, I forgot to mention our operations are based on JSP552, not MATS Pt 1.
Thats my personal viewpoint and (for those who know me) nothing 'official'.
BD