Air Services Australia
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Earth
Air Services Australia
Does anybody have any information if air services australia are recruiting previously trained controllers. I heard that they are short of staff, but do not know how often or when they run a course.
p.s have residency
p.s have residency
Last edited by tusitala; 17th May 2006 at 00:31.
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: On a different Island
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7
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From: Perth
staff shortage
not sure what the go is? Have had an application with air services for awhile. They are recruiting for new intakes, but do not have any courses planned for previously trained controllers. They are having a reshuffle or something.
They are short of staff though, so put application in. It would be quicker to fill the gaps with previously trained controllers.
They are short of staff though, so put application in. It would be quicker to fill the gaps with previously trained controllers.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 787
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From: On a Ship Near You
TLN,
It's funny is it not, what CB would like to do at what we actually do are often very different things. Our RMP (resource management planner) says short almost everywhere, right now, retirement numbers insane for the next 12 months due to age profile issues; which is ongoing for the next 5 years.
Restructuring the way we do business, bringing on new technology etc. will save some bodies; but if it's more than 50 I'll go he! That's in 18 months; how do we get from here to there, hire bodies... So many more resources will actually be needed to 'bow wave' any restructure and we can't fill shifts now.
It's funny is it not, what CB would like to do at what we actually do are often very different things. Our RMP (resource management planner) says short almost everywhere, right now, retirement numbers insane for the next 12 months due to age profile issues; which is ongoing for the next 5 years.
Restructuring the way we do business, bringing on new technology etc. will save some bodies; but if it's more than 50 I'll go he! That's in 18 months; how do we get from here to there, hire bodies... So many more resources will actually be needed to 'bow wave' any restructure and we can't fill shifts now.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 787
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From: On a Ship Near You
tusitala,
Perhaps It's cause they don't have a 'conversion course' fit for delivery; or simply they are unable to find an egg in the hen house.
They seem to be able to bring RAAFies across to the civil side, don't think it would be too much trouble to bring across FNs.
Also it may be jsut because it would need a brave manager to bring in newbies when the current philosophy is reduce, re-use, recycle; in that order...
Perhaps It's cause they don't have a 'conversion course' fit for delivery; or simply they are unable to find an egg in the hen house.
They seem to be able to bring RAAFies across to the civil side, don't think it would be too much trouble to bring across FNs.
Also it may be jsut because it would need a brave manager to bring in newbies when the current philosophy is reduce, re-use, recycle; in that order...
Joined: May 2006
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From: Perth
I know the RAAF are recruiting, they are very short of controllers. Seven years enlistment though. Patience is the best thing, ASA should run a course soon, I hope so anyway.
Did not think it would be a problem to run a short course.
Did not think it would be a problem to run a short course.
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: In the Dog house
SM4 Pirate
Not wishing to get into a Civvy V Mil debate but, regarding employing RAAFies versus FNs - I think one of the biggest hurdles is the immigration requirements. Not saying that they couldnt be overcome; as often - where there is a will ( and a need) there is a way - as in the case of the RAAF lateral recruitment programme.
Also, when you consider that the RAAF use exactly the same docs ( MATS, AIP) to provide what is a civil APP/ TWR ATC service, particularly at Darwin , Townsville and Williamtown, its conceivable that the cross training of RAAFies may be a more expeditious solution to that of employing FNs - Maybe!
That said, I understand that to date, very few shortened "conversion" courses have been run, and that ASA have insisted on having their pound of flesh from any ab initio regardless of previous experience.
But thats only MHO / perception.
Im sure there are a few crossovers out there who could paint a more accurate picture.
Not wishing to get into a Civvy V Mil debate but, regarding employing RAAFies versus FNs - I think one of the biggest hurdles is the immigration requirements. Not saying that they couldnt be overcome; as often - where there is a will ( and a need) there is a way - as in the case of the RAAF lateral recruitment programme.
Also, when you consider that the RAAF use exactly the same docs ( MATS, AIP) to provide what is a civil APP/ TWR ATC service, particularly at Darwin , Townsville and Williamtown, its conceivable that the cross training of RAAFies may be a more expeditious solution to that of employing FNs - Maybe!
That said, I understand that to date, very few shortened "conversion" courses have been run, and that ASA have insisted on having their pound of flesh from any ab initio regardless of previous experience.
But thats only MHO / perception.
Im sure there are a few crossovers out there who could paint a more accurate picture.
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: On a Ship Near You
BD, Agree whole heartedly, most FNs seem to be aware of the 'residency' issues and even those pre-approved seem to get looked over, too hard basket.
I believe the 'original RAAF' conversion course (where it wasn't via a full short term course or full conversion course such as joining a FIS to ATC course) was actually labelled the "ICAO Conversion course" and had a couple of FNs on it?
Now it's all too hard... But wait, breaking news, Civil ATC in OZ is 200 over staffed, big "official" announcement due soon, funny I had 12 calls to come to work on my last 2 days off... Sure, we're flush with staff, NOT!
Why are we over, you guessed it we staff for peak traffic (ie 5 or 6 ATC for 5 consoles open etc.), which only lasts for 5 hours a day, 3 in the morning on most positions and 2 hours in the arvo; so minimum staffing will actually be 2 or 3 people (average consoles open + 1) in most groups not the current 5 or 6; bingo 200 saved... Oh yeah plus a few part timers for the peaks; every day for 5 days of the week and a morning and arvo on the weekend...
I believe the 'original RAAF' conversion course (where it wasn't via a full short term course or full conversion course such as joining a FIS to ATC course) was actually labelled the "ICAO Conversion course" and had a couple of FNs on it?
Now it's all too hard... But wait, breaking news, Civil ATC in OZ is 200 over staffed, big "official" announcement due soon, funny I had 12 calls to come to work on my last 2 days off... Sure, we're flush with staff, NOT!
Why are we over, you guessed it we staff for peak traffic (ie 5 or 6 ATC for 5 consoles open etc.), which only lasts for 5 hours a day, 3 in the morning on most positions and 2 hours in the arvo; so minimum staffing will actually be 2 or 3 people (average consoles open + 1) in most groups not the current 5 or 6; bingo 200 saved... Oh yeah plus a few part timers for the peaks; every day for 5 days of the week and a morning and arvo on the weekend...
Ohcirrej
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: This is the internet FFS.........
We've been here before on PPRuNe regarding experienced ex-pats and alike joining up with ATS providers and not starting on the bottom rung (I'll try and find the thread).
There have been some organisations out there that do/did recognise previous and pay for it.........how many Ozmates round here went up to Hong Kong in the 80s and 90s for that little money spinner? Nav Canada's experienced controller program (which we could debate on another thread) also started their FNs with a reasonable relocation and pay package, as well as put the wheels in motion for visas.
Maybe an adjustment in policy may not be a bad thing.........even thought you guys are overstaffed
There have been some organisations out there that do/did recognise previous and pay for it.........how many Ozmates round here went up to Hong Kong in the 80s and 90s for that little money spinner? Nav Canada's experienced controller program (which we could debate on another thread) also started their FNs with a reasonable relocation and pay package, as well as put the wheels in motion for visas.
Maybe an adjustment in policy may not be a bad thing.........even thought you guys are overstaffed
Joined: May 2006
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From: Perth
I realise there are issues with F/Ns, but I am one of many i know who do not have any constraints on them and hold australian residency. There is no reason, just do not seem to be running courses, but are employing new intakes
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Australia
I can tell you why they don't employ experienced controllers - they don't know what they are doing! Seriously, quote....."After the first reshuffle of management, we as management don't know what it is we can and cannot do at the moment" In other words their not doing anything!!! I visited a centre recently and they are really lost as to what is really happening and what is going to happen in the future.
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: a galaxy far, far,away...
So who's gonna be the first to mention Project Genesis? OOPS! 
Am I right in thinking that all the experienced controller courses planned for this year have been cancelled?
I'd love to go out there too, but it looks a bit volatile at the mo!
Am I right in thinking that all the experienced controller courses planned for this year have been cancelled?
I'd love to go out there too, but it looks a bit volatile at the mo!
