"Continue on the heading..."
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"Continue on the heading..."
Just a very quick question on something that always puzzles me whenever I hear it on the RT.
There are times when we're own-navigating to a waypoint and then the controller will ask us to continue on the heading.
Now, if I am manning the radio for the flight, I will simply reply with something like "Continue on the heading, <callsign>".
However, quite a few guys I fly with reply with "Continue on the heading and that's 325 degrees, <callsign>"
My question is, do you really need to know the heading if you're asking us to continue on the heading? I know that sometimes we're asked "Continue on the heading and what is that heading?" and in which case it's clear cut but what if you don't ask for the heading? Do you want to know it? Are we wasting valuable RT time?
Thank you!
MB
There are times when we're own-navigating to a waypoint and then the controller will ask us to continue on the heading.
Now, if I am manning the radio for the flight, I will simply reply with something like "Continue on the heading, <callsign>".
However, quite a few guys I fly with reply with "Continue on the heading and that's 325 degrees, <callsign>"
My question is, do you really need to know the heading if you're asking us to continue on the heading? I know that sometimes we're asked "Continue on the heading and what is that heading?" and in which case it's clear cut but what if you don't ask for the heading? Do you want to know it? Are we wasting valuable RT time?
Thank you!
MB
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The benefit of giving the heading is that if we need to give you a turn, if we know the heading you're on we know which heading to give! Then again, we can just say "turn left 10 degrees". I've usually found that giving a specific heading, rather than asking you to add/subtract a number, gets a slightly quicker response....
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It's also useful if we have to parallel another aircraft with yours and we don't need you to turn...or we just ask you for your hdg, but it does help if we are busy if you report it.
On a similar note, are there differences in SOPs between how you report hdg? I have been training on Clacton for about 6 months now and can't see any pattern i.e exact heading or to closest 5 degrees.
On a similar note, are there differences in SOPs between how you report hdg? I have been training on Clacton for about 6 months now and can't see any pattern i.e exact heading or to closest 5 degrees.
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I would like to see it made in to a SOP that it is a requirement to read back the heading that you are on. If brought in this would cut RT time over all of the sectors and that can only be a good thing.
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If I want to know the heading I'll say, "Report Heading," then "Continue heading [wot you said] due [blah]" after you answer. If I don't want to know I'll say, "Continue present heading due [blah]."
If you say your heading (precise or rounded to the nearest 5) and I didn't ask for it I will not wax wrathful, but I would not read it back to you either.
If you say your heading (precise or rounded to the nearest 5) and I didn't ask for it I will not wax wrathful, but I would not read it back to you either.
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Thanks for your replies, folks. I must admit I was more concerned about taking up too much RT airtime especially around the busy South of the UK but it looks like it's the norm to offer the heading as well. Wilco.
In answer to your questions:
Phantom99, my airline teaches us to round up/down to the nearest 5 degrees. I remember the reason being that you guys only ever ask us to fly 0 or 5 degrees headings and nothing in between.
Ta!
MB
In answer to your questions:
Phantom99, my airline teaches us to round up/down to the nearest 5 degrees. I remember the reason being that you guys only ever ask us to fly 0 or 5 degrees headings and nothing in between.
Ta!
MB
I say there boy
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The UK MATS Part 1 has two items of phraseology for this:
"Continue present heading"
and
"Continue present heading and report that heading"
When you consider the latter, the distinction between the correct responses to each of these two is obvious.
"Continue present heading"
and
"Continue present heading and report that heading"
When you consider the latter, the distinction between the correct responses to each of these two is obvious.
Last edited by foghorn; 11th Apr 2006 at 14:58.
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According to MATS Pt1 Appendix E, the following phrases can be used by controllers:
Continue heading xxx (when we know the heading you are on)
Continue present heading
Continue present heading and report that heading
Apart from the last one there is no requirement to tell us the heading as if we wanted to know we would use the last phrase.
Continue heading xxx (when we know the heading you are on)
Continue present heading
Continue present heading and report that heading
Apart from the last one there is no requirement to tell us the heading as if we wanted to know we would use the last phrase.
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I agree that i'll ask if i want to know the heading. However, if your response to "Continue present heading" was, "Continue present heading of 325", then it's not much of an increase in R/T, and it may prove useful to us later.
What you're doing is perfectly correct though.
What you're doing is perfectly correct though.
On the subject of "continue heading", I note that too many pilots acknowledge with "maintaining heading", which is incorrect. You continue a heading and maintain a flight level.
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Originally Posted by monkeyboy
...I must admit I was more concerned about taking up too much RT airtime especially around the busy South of the UK but it looks like it's the norm to offer the heading as well...
"Continue on the heading 325 degrees, <callsign>"
in stead of:
"Continue on the heading and that's 325 degrees, <callsign>" or "Continue on the heading, <callsign>"
It keeps the RT airtime short, and gives both readback and the heading.
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If giving the heading in the reply was a SOP then the RT time saved would be considerable. Here are a few of the ways it's done now.
"BA123 continue present hdg till advised,what is that heading?
"Roger continue hdg 325 BA123"
"BA123 fly hdg 325.
"Roger fly hdg 325 BA123"
"BA123 turn R/L 10 degrees and report the new hdg"
"Roger R/L 10 degrees hdg 325 BA123"
compared with a possible:
"BA123 continue present hdg"
"Continue hdg 325 BA123"
No2. remains the same.
"BA123 turn R/L 10 degrees"
"Roger R/L 10 degreed hdg 325 BA123"
The major benefit is with example 1 but any benefit is better than none and it's so easy to implement quickly.
"BA123 continue present hdg till advised,what is that heading?
"Roger continue hdg 325 BA123"
"BA123 fly hdg 325.
"Roger fly hdg 325 BA123"
"BA123 turn R/L 10 degrees and report the new hdg"
"Roger R/L 10 degrees hdg 325 BA123"
compared with a possible:
"BA123 continue present hdg"
"Continue hdg 325 BA123"
No2. remains the same.
"BA123 turn R/L 10 degrees"
"Roger R/L 10 degreed hdg 325 BA123"
The major benefit is with example 1 but any benefit is better than none and it's so easy to implement quickly.
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hmm...got me thinking here...
I've read this thread with interest, and as a pilot who navigates the busy Manchester/London/Scottish sectors regularly is often asked to report my heading or turn left/right 10 degrees and report heading.
Now my question, do you want to know my exact heading, or a rounded up/down heading to the nearest 5 degrees?
If, lets say, my heading is 323 degrees and you want me to turn right 15 degrees, do you want my heading to be 338 and report it as 340, or to right turn 17 degrees and be heading 340 degrees (having rounded up the figure to make it a whole one?)
perplexed, 8028410q
Now my question, do you want to know my exact heading, or a rounded up/down heading to the nearest 5 degrees?
If, lets say, my heading is 323 degrees and you want me to turn right 15 degrees, do you want my heading to be 338 and report it as 340, or to right turn 17 degrees and be heading 340 degrees (having rounded up the figure to make it a whole one?)
perplexed, 8028410q
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Always fly and report the actual heading requested - no room for error there. Remember, I may want someone else to fly the exact same heading you are on and he/she may only be 5 miles off your wingtip.
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Depending on the circumstances I'll round up to 5 degrees, but always expect you to report your actual. So what will happen in the case of a parallel traffic situation is that if I lock you on your reported heading of say 103 degrees, I'll instruct the other traffic to fly 105 if on your right wing, or 100 if on your left wing. It gives that little bit extra for Mum.
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Excellent info to be aware of as must admit I am guilty of rounding heading to nearest +/- 5 degrees which I thought was being helpful..sorry. All atc I work with are great and if its helps then its no problem.
