Trainnee pay reduction....... NATS UK

[Quincy M.E.]

Hi all

I know there have been a few comments in other threads regarding the trainee pay reduction but I thought a new thread may be in order.

What is the feeling amongst controllers/the company or trainees down at the college about this and the effect it might have on recruitment?

I think it will hit people in my position hardest (an older candidate with partner, mortgage etc) rather than the younger of us out there. I have been offered a place but am going to be living on an absolute shoe string for the next x No of years and will have to take out a loan of about 10k.

Cheers

[GT3]

Ok I would say that "living on an absolute shoe string for the next x years" is dramatically overplaying it. The £10K will be for a maximum 9 months at the collegee then pay rises kick in.

It may hit recruitment but in the NATS that is highly profit driven then I do not see the CEO wanting anything else than cutting an outlay that does not always get a return in the end.

[BA Baracus]

(For NATS) Is it £10k plus living allowance or just £10k?

It wont put me off either way - just would be nice to know. Compared to my uni days I will feel like a king on that kind of dosh (If I make it through) - I may even be able to splash out on the odd roll of double quilted toilet paper for those post-curry-night-out apocalyptic mornings (obviously not on a school night tho)!

I do sympathise with those older trainees with families to provide for - gonna be tougher for them but, as 'they' say...." where there's a will......

Maybe people on here could come up with some useful money saving ideas - like just having one light bulb and moving it to whichever room your in?

[Quincy M.E.]

It is now 10K without living allowance according to HR.

[Quincy M.E.]

Originally Posted by GT3

Ok I would say that "living on an absolute shoe string for the next x years" is dramatically overplaying it. The £10K will be for a maximum 9 months at the collegee then pay rises kick in.
It may hit recruitment but in the NATS that is highly profit driven then I do not see the CEO wanting anything else than cutting an outlay that does not always get a return in the end.

But it says on the NATs website that it takes 15 months to train in Area. Is this not the case?

Thanks

[tired-flyboy]

I think with the new Area course - start to finish at the college is 9 months.

I may be wrong however.

[Aiguilleur du ciel]

Originally Posted by tired-flyboy

I think with the new Area course - start to finish at the college is 9 months.
I may be wrong however.

this was discussed during my Q&A's session at my interview:
Area is 9 months @ the college then you will be posted to an unit
Airport is 6 months @ the college.....

[Number2]

'What is the feeling amongst controllers/the company or trainees down at the college about this and the effect it might have on recruitment?'

Recruitment (according to HR) is booming.

I think the pay for trainees is outrageous but I wasn't surprised that it was voted in. Most people are more concerned with making their own mortgage/car payments and having nice holidays. IMHO, the majority aren't too bothered how well off the students are.

For people with a mortgage/family etc, it will be tough and I wish you all well. I wouldn't like to have to live in a 'squat' in Boscombe and I wonder how many controllers would have left their previous jobs for 10k a year.

[flyingwingofjazzdestiny]

I went through the college a couple of years ago and was on the old pay with the 100 quid a week living expenses. I don't remember feeling particularly loaded, on the contrary! I really don't know how I would have managed on 10k considering that the going rate for the vast majority of accommodation in and around Hurn was and probably still is 100 quid a week. Its hard and stressful enough getting through the college without added financial stress.

[atcsstudent]

At least you get to earn something.
In Spain you get about 450 € each month nearly for 2 years when you are at college. !
And you still moan about it?
Kind regards.

[250 kts]

And there is a feeling amongst some ATCOs that we should have similar terms and conditions to the Spanish. The grass is not always greener.

[Lock n' Load]

I think the trainee pay reductions are a bad thing for two reasons.

1) The college is not just another higher education institution. Quite apart from the workload being higher than the average uni course, it isn't well-served by bus routes as most colleges/unis are, and it really is too much to expect trainees to club together for car-buying for what are fairly short courses. On top of the expense of having a car, which at least a third of each course really must have, there aren't halls of residence and the only subsidised eaterie (is it even still subsidised?) offers lunch only.

2) It is a slippery slope to the current Canadian system of charging for the course and only paying a salary when the trainees reach operational training.

[booke23]

I'm afraid I welcome the new trainee pay structure. And would not be upset if trainee pay was abolished altogether. (although a student accomadation block would be needed to justify this) And I know others share this view.

For too long now we have had people just out of uni with their degrees in Ancient egyptian hystory etc, finding that they can't get a job in what they are qualified in.....then seeing the NATS ad when flicking through the paper offering a 22k starting salary.....they apply, get in.......and fail.

Personally, I think we will start to see a much greater percentage of highly driven students on the courses. Which should have an impact on the pass rate. Of course I may be wrong......time will tell.

[Number2]

I think it's a sweeping generalisation to think that previous students were not driven just because of the wage. The salary was in place to attract 'good' people. If too many failed, perhaps a keener eye should have been passed over the HR selection process or the training itself.

I agree with Lock'n'Load. This is the start of a very slippery path. Some people can only see as far as their own bank balance now that they have secured their own future.

Take a minute to think about others for a change.......

[Kirk Biddlecombe]

I agree with the point about NATS having wasted too much money on fresh graduates who go on to fail the course.

If I get in, the salary will be fine. I have finished studying, am single and 10k is great compared the amount I was receiving from Student Loans whilst at Uni, and that was in London.

I sympathize with older applicants though who may well have family responsiblities, mortages etc.
Perhaps older applicants should be given extra allowance for accomodation.

Kirk

[Turn It Off]

Kirk,

I assume that also when you were living in London you had free council tax, discounted rail cards, subsidised bar, etc etc.

You dont get any of this at CATC because you are not a student, you are a trainee. That extra £100 a month just for council tax equates to £1000.00 of your 10K. Not to mention the 25% the tax man is gonna rob off.

I dont wanna knock your enthusiasm, I really hope you get on well, and get posted to my unit so I can get the transfer I have asked for!! I just dont agree with the new wage for students.

TIO

[KazBird]

Trainee Pay

Sorry guys, but I have to say that I think receiving a salary for training and therefore not actually earning any money for the company was always going to be one of the first things that management tried to change. I think that £10k is a pretty good wage to be on relative to the amount paid out/debt taken on by your average student (or student pilot!). You can easily get a decent room in a house in Bournemouth for £75-85 per week inc all bills. Petrol money to and from college can't account for more than a tenner a week.... and the rest (approx £5k over the year) is all yours (to easily cover food, car tax, insurance etc) I lived on a maximum of £50 spending money a week (after rent etc) through 3 years at uni and still saved - it can be done! And it's definitely worth it in the end

[Number2]

All well and good but that doesn't help the people with mortgages/family. 10 quid a week for petrol - if you drive a hybrid maybe.

Reality check please.

[Lookatthesky]

Originally Posted by Number2

All well and good but that doesn't help the people with mortgages/family. 10 quid a week for petrol - if you drive a hybrid maybe.
Reality check please.

If you want it badly enough, you'll get a loan. It's not for ever, in fact it won't even be for 1 year and the reards for success are there.

[Bright-Ling]

It's simple.

If there are only 100 beans to pay people with, there are only 100 beans available. Period.

You can distribute the beans as you wish - 40 beans to trainee pay and 60 beans to valid ATCOs. But there are still only 100 beans available.

But then the valid ATCOs would get a bit miffed.

In short, how many valid ATCOs would declare publicly to not having a pay rise (or even having a pay cut) to ensure that Trainee's get more beans for 9 months??

B-L