Trainnee pay reduction....... NATS UK
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Originally Posted by Number2
TATC
Thankyou. Another voice of reason. The college is NOT a university. Few of my course were graduates. Ex-Tescos, ex-RAF, some with family to support etc etc. Nothing is subsidised (especially beer in Bournemouth!)
IMHO, a whole different ball game to Uni life.
Thankyou. Another voice of reason. The college is NOT a university. Few of my course were graduates. Ex-Tescos, ex-RAF, some with family to support etc etc. Nothing is subsidised (especially beer in Bournemouth!)
IMHO, a whole different ball game to Uni life.
When you validate you'll be on a big salary try and remember, a little bit of pain can be rewarded with a lot of gain!
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Originally Posted by REVOLUTION
When you validate you'll be on a big salary
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T&D
"What's the T&D?"
Training and development scale. You stay on this before you join the bottom of the atco pay scale. I think the point is that the more experience you gain then the more you deserve to be paid.
Lass
Training and development scale. You stay on this before you join the bottom of the atco pay scale. I think the point is that the more experience you gain then the more you deserve to be paid.
Lass
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It's what the payscale is called from when you leave the college to the third anniversary of joining. At that point, at Heathrow, it goes from 28k (plus 5k shift work and at Heathrow Outer London Supp. of 2k = total of 35k) to around a total of 48k.
I say there boy
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Originally Posted by Lassie
"What's the T&D?"
Training and development scale. You stay on this before you join the bottom of the atco pay scale. I think the point is that the more experience you gain then the more you deserve to be paid.
Lass
Training and development scale. You stay on this before you join the bottom of the atco pay scale. I think the point is that the more experience you gain then the more you deserve to be paid.
Lass
Originally Posted by Gonzo
It's what the payscale is called from when you leave the college to the third anniversary of joining. At that point, at Heathrow, it goes from 28k (plus 5k shift work and at Heathrow Outer London Supp. of 2k = total of 35k) to around a total of 48k.
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Originally Posted by foghorn
T&D does not exist for new entrants. It has been replaced by new post-college TATC grades until validation, earning around the £15k - 18k mark.
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Originally Posted by Lassie
What about once valid.....will new entrants go straight to the atco scale or still some sort of intermediate pay?
Just to clear things up: Folks who joined before two and a half years ago got £19k + £4.6k tax-free WAP in college, £35k one posted to units, £42k once valid until their 3rd anniversary, then the main scale of £48k. Once valid, valid ATCO pay was backdated to the date that the first person who validated on that person's course.
Since then up to course 206, folks get £15k + £4.6K tax-free WAP at college, £28k once posted, £42k once valid until their 3rd anniversary, then £48k. There is no backdating.
After 207 the figures go £10k total whilst at college, then £17-18k whilst at a unit, then £42k after first validation until their 3rd anniversary, then £48k. Also with no backdating.
All the above assumes an outer London band 5 unit (EGLL, LTCC).
Last edited by foghorn; 10th Mar 2006 at 16:16.
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Originally Posted by foghorn
You go on the V scale until your third anniversary of joining the company. It's about £35k plus the allowances at Band 5 units.
I do apologise if i'm missing something.
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Originally Posted by Kirk Biddlecombe
Is this correct then?
CATC: £10k
Units whilst validating: £17-18k
Valid: £42k
Third anniversary of joining: £48k
Then ~£3.5k annual increments to ~£80k.
All assuming LL or TC and include supplementary pay. LACC is just a tad less (due London weighting).
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Originally Posted by foghorn
You go on the V scale until your third anniversary of joining the company. It's about £35k plus the allowances at Band 5 units.
Just to clear things up: Folks who joined before two and a half years ago got £19k + £4.6k tax-free WAP in college, £35k one posted to units, £42k once valid until their 3rd anniversary, then the main scale of £48k. Once valid, valid ATCO pay was backdated to the date that the first person who validated on that person's course.
Since then up to course 206, folks get £15k + £4.6K tax-free WAP at college, £28k once posted, £42k once valid until their 3rd anniversary, then £48k. There is no backdating.
After 207 the figures go £10k total whilst at college, then £17-18k whilst at a unit, then £42k after first validation until their 3rd anniversary, then £48k. Also with no backdating.
All the above assumes an outer London band 5 unit (EGLL, LTCC).
Just to clear things up: Folks who joined before two and a half years ago got £19k + £4.6k tax-free WAP in college, £35k one posted to units, £42k once valid until their 3rd anniversary, then the main scale of £48k. Once valid, valid ATCO pay was backdated to the date that the first person who validated on that person's course.
Since then up to course 206, folks get £15k + £4.6K tax-free WAP at college, £28k once posted, £42k once valid until their 3rd anniversary, then £48k. There is no backdating.
After 207 the figures go £10k total whilst at college, then £17-18k whilst at a unit, then £42k after first validation until their 3rd anniversary, then £48k. Also with no backdating.
All the above assumes an outer London band 5 unit (EGLL, LTCC).
when first posted to a unit it was 18.5k+wap for 3 months then I went onto the ATCO T&D scale which went from 22k-28k in 6,monthly incremments for 2 years or until valid when movement to first validation pay was made. Movemment onto the ATCO scale was 2 years from common course graduation date, if not valid by then then pay was backdated to that date. These figures applied to all trainees wherever posted as it was before banding. The only exception was Area students who went straight onto the T&D scale because they had an extra 3 months at the college assuming they didnt fail any courses.
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Trainee Pay Reduction
I have always found it somewhat of an anomaly that one got paid good money to train at college ie whilst being non-productive. If we are totally honest with ourselves, there were, and are, people who came/come in to the job for the money. Some made it and some didn't. Some are now excellent controllers and some are now seeking/doing some other well paid job.
Maybe the new rates will mean that people that come into the profession will do so because they want to do the job, not jus for the money. And maybe that will mean a higher success rate. Maybe not, time will tell.
But let us not forget that is still a good deal compared to some countries that I could name where not only do you not get paid when training at college for your license but you pay for the course! Once qualified you then get that training money back. The incentive through this is the high pay at the end.
And how many pilots have got there by mortgaging themselves to the hilt to get qualified? A lot of them.
Look ahead. Things may be tight initially, but better than some get it, and the end rewards are great.
Maybe the new rates will mean that people that come into the profession will do so because they want to do the job, not jus for the money. And maybe that will mean a higher success rate. Maybe not, time will tell.
But let us not forget that is still a good deal compared to some countries that I could name where not only do you not get paid when training at college for your license but you pay for the course! Once qualified you then get that training money back. The incentive through this is the high pay at the end.
And how many pilots have got there by mortgaging themselves to the hilt to get qualified? A lot of them.
Look ahead. Things may be tight initially, but better than some get it, and the end rewards are great.
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Originally Posted by WetFeet
I have always found it somewhat of an anomaly that one got paid good money to train at college ie whilst being non-productive. If we are totally honest with ourselves, there were, and are, people who came/come in to the job for the money. Some made it and some didn't. Some are now excellent controllers and some are now seeking/doing some other well paid job.
Maybe the new rates will mean that people that come into the profession will do so because they want to do the job, not jus for the money. And maybe that will mean a higher success rate. Maybe not, time will tell.
But let us not forget that is still a good deal compared to some countries that I could name where not only do you not get paid when training at college for your license but you pay for the course! Once qualified you then get that training money back. The incentive through this is the high pay at the end.
And how many pilots have got there by mortgaging themselves to the hilt to get qualified? A lot of them.
Look ahead. Things may be tight initially, but better than some get it, and the end rewards are great.
Maybe the new rates will mean that people that come into the profession will do so because they want to do the job, not jus for the money. And maybe that will mean a higher success rate. Maybe not, time will tell.
But let us not forget that is still a good deal compared to some countries that I could name where not only do you not get paid when training at college for your license but you pay for the course! Once qualified you then get that training money back. The incentive through this is the high pay at the end.
And how many pilots have got there by mortgaging themselves to the hilt to get qualified? A lot of them.
Look ahead. Things may be tight initially, but better than some get it, and the end rewards are great.
When i was training i was asked how NATS could improve recruitment. My reply was to visit schools and universities and make people aware of the career opportunities. The response I got was that NATS was happy to survive from applicants gaining an interest in the job from word of mouth from family friends, or being attracted by the money.
In order to attract applicants with a genuine interest in the job then the career needs to be publicised more within schools, universities and in career offices generally. I say publicise the career and not the money that goes with it, by doing this if someone was interested then they would have to do research to find out about pay, companies they could work for etc.. a good test of motivation
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TACT, I agree. I should point out though that NATS does attend some careers conventions, several ATCO's/ATSA's at Scottish have been involved, but we do need to do more.
The difficulty is getting people involved in going to schools etc to give the presentations. With all the extra-curricular activities now needed to keep the business running/progressing, getting volunteers is not easy.
The difficulty is getting people involved in going to schools etc to give the presentations. With all the extra-curricular activities now needed to keep the business running/progressing, getting volunteers is not easy.
I say there boy
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Originally Posted by TATC
I joined in before 2 and half years ago and didn't get paid 35k+allownaces when posted to a unit.
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Originally Posted by WetFeet
Maybe the new rates will mean that people that come into the profession will do so because they want to do the job, not jus for the money.
Why is it so bad to want the highest paid work you can get? Part of the attraction is the money, who can honestly say they're ATCOs just because radar gets their rocks off?