IFR vs VFR clearance in a CTR

[machlimter99]

Just wondering, I realise that you need an IR or IMC but what are the benefits of accepting an IFR clearance?? What would the controller make you do - providing you just wanted to transit his zone???

[AlanM]

Make you fly a heading and level, for instance.

Also, IFR may be harder to get you through a zone, esp if Class D as you now need to be separated from the other IFR traffic.

[NorthSouth]

The controller will separate you from all other IFR traffic - by either 3nm or 5nm depending on the airspace, and/or vertically by 1000ft. This may mean you'd get vectored around. Compare that to a VFR clearance where you may get held and told to orbit to keep you out of the way of IFR traffic.

But the main reason you'd want an IFR clearance rather than VFR is because the weather doesn't permit you to make a zone transit VFR.

If you have an IMC or IR you can also make a VFR transit without being in sight of the surface i.e. above cloud.

NS

[machlimter99]

So "VFR on top" is recognised in the uk???

What happens if its night? Would I still fly VFR in a CTR??

[NorthSouth]

VFR on top is a standard part of the ICAO definition of VFR, i.e. there's no specific requirement in their standards that you remain in sight of the surface. The same is true in the UK - the Rules of the Air don't prevent VFR flight out of sight of the surface. However if you have a PPL, Schedule 8 of the ANO (which sets out licence privileges) states that unless you have an IMC or an IR you cannot fly out of sight of the surface. Hence if you do have one, you can!

There's no night VFR in the UK. If you want to fly VFR at night in a CTR it would have to be on a Special VFR clearance. And that does require you to remain in sight of the surface even if you do have an IMC or an IR.

Bet you wish you hadn't asked now!

NS

[machlimter99]

So imagine, if I asked for an IFR clearance, what would the controller have said?? Imagine I would have an IR or Imc

[Regular Cappuccino]

Originally Posted by machlimter99

So imagine, if I asked for an IFR clearance, what would the controller have said?? Imagine I would have an IR or Imc

Probably identify you first, then something along the lines of -"C/s clear to transit, FL50 (or whatever level), report xxx" (if a position report was required).
As you entered the CTA / CTR "C/s entering Controlled Airspace, Radar Control Service"
As you left the CTA / CTR "C/s clearing CAS, RAS / RIS / FIS" (as appropriate), or even "C/s clearing CAS, squawk 7000, continue en-route, Good Day".

A VFR tranist would be phrased "not above FL50" (or whatever level), leaving you the freedom to manoeuvre vertically if necessary in order to maintain VMC.
RC

[machlimter99]

So apart from the weather what makes people choose whether they are VFR and IFR??- apart from equipment and pilot qualifications??

[NorthSouth]

Ease of routing could be another reason - if you reckon you might be vectored all over the shop then dumped by the controller at the other side, off your planned route, you might opt to go VFR instead. Conversely you might judge that you'd be refused a VFR transit due to the amount of traffic, or you'd be held orbiting - then you might reckon an IFR transit would get you there quicker.

NS

[Standard Noise]

Originally Posted by Regular Cappuccino

As you left the CTA / CTR "C/s clearing CAS, RAS / RIS / FIS" (as appropriate), or even "C/s clearing CAS, squawk 7000, continue en-route, Good Day".
RC

You'll have to excuse me, but I've never said, or heard another ATCO say "c/s clearing CAS...."
Surely it's, "c/s leaving CAS...."

Or have I been doing it wrong all these years!? Or are you a johnny foreigner RC?

[Regular Cappuccino]

OOOps. Mea Culpa. Slip of the typing finger (it was late at night!)
RC
PS. If you're where I think you're from, how's Chris getting on?

Ooops again - it wasn't late at night was it? It obviously just felt like it!
RC

[Standard Noise]

PM on way.