Refused zone transit ?
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Refused zone transit ?
I am based 4 miles outside the control zone of my local airport, when airborne I always request a zone transit from approach to allow me permission to transit about 3 miles inside the zone for a distance of 5 miles. It is a 15-mile radius zone
I have been flying this regular route each week (helicopter) for the last year to an uncontrolled airfield 100 miles to the northeast using information only service.
I have always received permission for transit without difficulty and I am always well away from the runways extended line. The zone would not be considered a busy zone.
Recently as usual I requested transit, the controller replied if I had a flight plan. I did not. I then got a lecture on air law and was refused permission to transit. The controller advised that I should route west and north around the zone. I replied that I was unable as it was higher ground with cloud on the hilltops. The controller then questioned if I should be flying in these conditions. (The route through the zone was perfectly clear and no special VFR would be required). The controller then advised that I should return to base and file a plan. This I did, as I had no other alternative.
The last transmission from the controller was “Flight plan closed at 12.10 pm” I thought this was strange as I did not have a plan in the first place but I thought better of questioning that!
It is not possible for me to radio ahead 10 minutes before entry as it only takes me 2 or 3 minutes to reach the boundary.
I don’t disagree that the controller was entitled to refuse me permission but I thought his actions unreasonable.
What do the pprune experts think?
Raven
I have been flying this regular route each week (helicopter) for the last year to an uncontrolled airfield 100 miles to the northeast using information only service.
I have always received permission for transit without difficulty and I am always well away from the runways extended line. The zone would not be considered a busy zone.
Recently as usual I requested transit, the controller replied if I had a flight plan. I did not. I then got a lecture on air law and was refused permission to transit. The controller advised that I should route west and north around the zone. I replied that I was unable as it was higher ground with cloud on the hilltops. The controller then questioned if I should be flying in these conditions. (The route through the zone was perfectly clear and no special VFR would be required). The controller then advised that I should return to base and file a plan. This I did, as I had no other alternative.
The last transmission from the controller was “Flight plan closed at 12.10 pm” I thought this was strange as I did not have a plan in the first place but I thought better of questioning that!
It is not possible for me to radio ahead 10 minutes before entry as it only takes me 2 or 3 minutes to reach the boundary.
I don’t disagree that the controller was entitled to refuse me permission but I thought his actions unreasonable.
What do the pprune experts think?
Raven
Re: Refused zone transit ?
Based on your version of events, I have to say this was a disgusting way to treat you, but unless we hear from the controller concerned, we won't know if he/she had mitigating circumstances.
Incidentally, there's a discussion in Private Flying about filing of flight Plans when not entering class A airspace.
Incidentally, there's a discussion in Private Flying about filing of flight Plans when not entering class A airspace.
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Re: Refused zone transit ?
I thought it was possible to file and abbrviated flight plan in the air before entering CAS.
If you give the controller enough information regarding a/c type and routing then he can clear you into the zone without an official flight plan being filed over the AFTN - method used by a lot of VFR traffic when weather conditions can mean an unexpected deviation to planned routing taking them inside controlled airspace.
As an aside could you possibly telephone the unit concerned to prenote your flight to air traffic so that the intial transit request does not come as a surprise
If you give the controller enough information regarding a/c type and routing then he can clear you into the zone without an official flight plan being filed over the AFTN - method used by a lot of VFR traffic when weather conditions can mean an unexpected deviation to planned routing taking them inside controlled airspace.
As an aside could you possibly telephone the unit concerned to prenote your flight to air traffic so that the intial transit request does not come as a surprise
Re: Refused zone transit ?
Filing a flight plan in the UK would have been no use anyway, as they're not sent on to en-route agencies, just destination and next FIR (if you cross an FIR boundary)
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Re: Refused zone transit ?
Yes any chance of a few more details as to Class of airspace etc.
What is the chance of you calling the ATC unit prior to getting airborne to advise them of your flight and see if there are any difficulties that day with obtaining a zone transit ?
What is the chance of you calling the ATC unit prior to getting airborne to advise them of your flight and see if there are any difficulties that day with obtaining a zone transit ?
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Re: Refused zone transit ?
The controller then questioned if I should be flying in these conditions.
Oh dear. I pray that you were not denied transit on the basis of controller workload. If the controller has got the time to engage in this sort of garbage, then there's probably time to work you through the airspace. I know I probably get on this horse too often, but I've been connected with aviation since 1975 (first six years flying and the rest as a controller) and I can't imagine a scenario in which questioning a pilot as to whether or not he "should be flying in these conditions" would be appropriate. Granted, I've only worked on this side of the pond, but that sort of challenge is just asinine. I may ask you whether you're in VFR conditions. I may refuse your request to transit airspace. But to start lecturing about your judgment on the radio is just stupid. If the pilot appears to have busted some regulation or doesn't seem to have his act together, have him give the facility a call when he's on the ground, file appropriate paperwork, or call someone in enforcement. But never, ever, take a pound of flesh on the radio.
Your opinions may, of course, differ.
Dave
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Re: Refused zone transit ?
I agree Dave, well said.
Any of my fellow brethren who have time to bleat on at pilots like that obviously needs more work to do.
Any of my fellow brethren who have time to bleat on at pilots like that obviously needs more work to do.
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Re: Refused zone transit ?
If it was "recently" then why not telephone the ATC supervisor at the facility and have him/her "pull the tape" and find out why you were treated the way you were?
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Re: Refused zone transit ?
Also agree with the above. Of course there may have been a valid reason to refuse a transit, but the controller concerned might also just have been talking tosh - either way you might find out by contacting the ATC Manager and giving the details.
Was it in the UK? In which case there's no requirement to file a flight plan to obtain a VFR zone transit, in fact I have on occasion provided an IFR clearance to transit a Class D zone to free-calling traffic. Not up to ATC to start questioning the legitimacy of your flight conditions.
What would a lawyer make of any subsequent accident when the aircraft was 'forced' by ATC to return to base and make an unnecessary extra takeoff and landing against the wishes of the pilot? Ten years ago it wouldn't be much of a consideration, but we all know how things are going these days....
Was it in the UK? In which case there's no requirement to file a flight plan to obtain a VFR zone transit, in fact I have on occasion provided an IFR clearance to transit a Class D zone to free-calling traffic. Not up to ATC to start questioning the legitimacy of your flight conditions.
What would a lawyer make of any subsequent accident when the aircraft was 'forced' by ATC to return to base and make an unnecessary extra takeoff and landing against the wishes of the pilot? Ten years ago it wouldn't be much of a consideration, but we all know how things are going these days....
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Re: Refused zone transit ?
Sounds like a Jobsworth, we are here to help not hinder. This course of "RT Banter" could have left this pilot in a very troublesome situation.
I hope it wasn't a control zone in the SE
I hope it wasn't a control zone in the SE
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Re: Refused zone transit ?
I agree with keygrip, doesn't sound very friendly at all!! get a apology if it happened that way or pull tapes!! Thats used to annoy me!! Phone the unit and ask what the prob was, an understanding always helps!!
