'squawk ident' rt reply ?
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'squawk ident' rt reply ?
When asked by ATC "XXX Squawk Ident", do you need to reply to the transmission or just press the Squawk button because ATC will know on their screen if you are identing? I know both happen in the air, was wondering what ATC is expecting and if there is any requirement to read that back (and I am not referring to a busy frequency situation where it may be good RT courtesy to refrain from replying). Thx
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I cannot think of many situations, if any, where it would be good R/T procedure not to reply, except when the other party has finished the conversation. If I asked someone to squawk ident I certainly wanted a response to be sure that aircraft had received the instruction. How about:
ATC: "xyz squawk ident"
xyz: "xyz Roger, ident.."
ATC: "xyz squawk ident"
xyz: "xyz Roger, ident.."
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Is there not a need to ensure the correct aircraft received the instruction? Hence a readback of callsign + roger, at the very least. Even if CAP413 doesn't demand it, perhaps airmanship should.
And I'd also add that if ATC include the actual squawk in the instruction, (as they sometimes do) that'd be a mandatory readback, no question.
And I'd also add that if ATC include the actual squawk in the instruction, (as they sometimes do) that'd be a mandatory readback, no question.
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I don't mind either way. If I tell an aircraft to squawk ident and then I see him identing, thats good enough for me. With frequency congestion the way it is these days, one less call suits me fine. Although I am partial to the american C-130's response of "Flash with the flash". (for those not dealing with the yanks, the callsign of a lot of the hercs is FLASH).
I think the pilot should reply in some manner. It takes several seconds for the ident to appear on a processed display, especially when using SSR from a remote source, so it reassures the controller that you have initiated an ident, so he/she should wait for it, otherwise controllers might ask again only for it to appear as they ask!
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100% with HD.
The number of times I hear no reply and have to ask again.....
Also get a lot of crews who squawk ident without being asked. Aaaaaagghhh
(I then have to wait for it to stop flashing, then get them to do it again)
The number of times I hear no reply and have to ask again.....
Also get a lot of crews who squawk ident without being asked. Aaaaaagghhh
(I then have to wait for it to stop flashing, then get them to do it again)
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ICAO PANS-ATM Doc. 4444, Chapter 4
4.5.7.5 READ-BACK OF CLEARANCES
4.5.7.5.1 The flight crew shall read back to the air traffic controller safety-related parts of ATC clearances and instructions
which are transmitted by voice. The following items shall always be read back:
a) ATC route clearances;
b) clearances and instructions to enter, land on, take off from, hold short of, cross, taxi and backtrack on any runway; and
c) runway-in-use, altimeter settings, SSR codes, level instructions, heading and speed instructions and, whether issued by the controller or contained in automatic terminal information service (ATIS) broadcasts, transition levels.
So it doesn't really say that a read-back of SQUAWK IDENT is mandatory, but I would say it would be good airmanship to do so (WILCO). What if the wrong aircraft starts squawking ident and the ATCO misidentify the wrong aircraft, not so good eh?
Unless you use this rule:
ICAO PANS-ATM Doc. 4444, Chapter 12
12.4.3.6 TO REQUEST THE OPERATION OF THE IDENT FEATURE
a) SQUAWK [(code)] [AND] IDENT;
e.g SQUAWK 1234 IDENT, read-back required reference c) above
4.5.7.5 READ-BACK OF CLEARANCES
4.5.7.5.1 The flight crew shall read back to the air traffic controller safety-related parts of ATC clearances and instructions
which are transmitted by voice. The following items shall always be read back:
a) ATC route clearances;
b) clearances and instructions to enter, land on, take off from, hold short of, cross, taxi and backtrack on any runway; and
c) runway-in-use, altimeter settings, SSR codes, level instructions, heading and speed instructions and, whether issued by the controller or contained in automatic terminal information service (ATIS) broadcasts, transition levels.
So it doesn't really say that a read-back of SQUAWK IDENT is mandatory, but I would say it would be good airmanship to do so (WILCO). What if the wrong aircraft starts squawking ident and the ATCO misidentify the wrong aircraft, not so good eh?
Unless you use this rule:
ICAO PANS-ATM Doc. 4444, Chapter 12
12.4.3.6 TO REQUEST THE OPERATION OF THE IDENT FEATURE
a) SQUAWK [(code)] [AND] IDENT;
e.g SQUAWK 1234 IDENT, read-back required reference c) above
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Dr. E, you highlight a good point. There are things that happen or are good to do but ICAO doesn't specify it in SARPs or PANS. Does that mean we shouldn't do it?
Maybe that's why the UK has gone further than ICAO. The UK's CAP 413 says
Now maybe it's undesirable to deviate from ICAO but in something like this I'm 100% behind the way the UK has gone and expanded the ICAO words. Perhaps you don't completely agree with the UK rules but if they are followed within the UK there will be fewer misunderstandings.
Maybe that's why the UK has gone further than ICAO. The UK's CAP 413 says
The ATS messages listed below are to be read back in full by the pilot/driver. If a readback is not received the pilot/driver will be asked to do so. Similarly, the pilot/driver is expected to request that instructions are repeated or clarified if any are not
fully understood.
Taxi/Towing Instructions
Level Instructions
Heading Instructions
Speed Instructions
Airways or Route Clearances
Approach Clearances
Runway-in-Use
Clearance to Enter, Land On, Take-Off On, Backtrack, Cross, or Hold Short of
any Active Runway
SSR Operating Instructions
Altimeter Settings
VDF Information
Frequency Changes
Type of Radar Service
Transition Levels
fully understood.
Taxi/Towing Instructions
Level Instructions
Heading Instructions
Speed Instructions
Airways or Route Clearances
Approach Clearances
Runway-in-Use
Clearance to Enter, Land On, Take-Off On, Backtrack, Cross, or Hold Short of
any Active Runway
SSR Operating Instructions
Altimeter Settings
VDF Information
Frequency Changes
Type of Radar Service
Transition Levels
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One I often get that makes me grin
ATC: "Good Morning Speedline 331, Climb 6000ft, no ATC speed and Squawk Ident"
Speedline 331: "Ident coming down"
I suppose it is coming down - pretty quickly in fact
ATC: "Good Morning Speedline 331, Climb 6000ft, no ATC speed and Squawk Ident"
Speedline 331: "Ident coming down"
I suppose it is coming down - pretty quickly in fact
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Rodger, spitoon & speedbrake:
I really should have bothered looking at the book before making such a statement; however, in my defence, I did say "even if CAP413 doesn't demand it".
Cheers,
GL
I really should have bothered looking at the book before making such a statement; however, in my defence, I did say "even if CAP413 doesn't demand it".
Cheers,
GL
