LVPs
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Heathrow Director,
Then my next question would be what if the RVR dropped below 400m with no LVPs in force? Can crew depart? Can the airfield process departing traffic?
You corrected my earlier post (and I'm all for being corrected!), but I was answering the original question posted from a legal stance (JAR-OPS/FCL). I believe your correction to my answer to be based on local procedures and protocols for dealing with the likelyhood of LVPs being required as RVR drops (departing and arriving traffic).
In short, to answer the original question, a non-qualified (CAT1) crew can take-off down to 150m (LVPs being in force). Right or wrong? It was my impression that without LVPs the lowest RVR for take-off is 400m (regardless of crew qualification- Cat1/2/3 etc).
Then my next question would be what if the RVR dropped below 400m with no LVPs in force? Can crew depart? Can the airfield process departing traffic?
You corrected my earlier post (and I'm all for being corrected!), but I was answering the original question posted from a legal stance (JAR-OPS/FCL). I believe your correction to my answer to be based on local procedures and protocols for dealing with the likelyhood of LVPs being required as RVR drops (departing and arriving traffic).
In short, to answer the original question, a non-qualified (CAT1) crew can take-off down to 150m (LVPs being in force). Right or wrong? It was my impression that without LVPs the lowest RVR for take-off is 400m (regardless of crew qualification- Cat1/2/3 etc).
PPRuNe's favourite BABE!!
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Standbyils
Just to clarify a few things,
1) If the rvr drops to 400m then we are in LVPs no matter what.
2) The crucial thing here is whether or not the runway is safeguarded. If not then all pilots will be told that "ATC LVP's are in force but the runway is not safeguarded" It is then up to a pilot wether or not to land/depart depending on what his/her criteria is.
3) It is not a factor as to how high a tower is. It is just weird tho looking down from a tall tower to see clouds below!!
Babe
Then my next question would be what if the RVR dropped below 400m with no LVPs in force? Can crew depart? Can the airfield process departing traffic?
Just to clarify a few things,
1) If the rvr drops to 400m then we are in LVPs no matter what.
2) The crucial thing here is whether or not the runway is safeguarded. If not then all pilots will be told that "ATC LVP's are in force but the runway is not safeguarded" It is then up to a pilot wether or not to land/depart depending on what his/her criteria is.
3) It is not a factor as to how high a tower is. It is just weird tho looking down from a tall tower to see clouds below!!
Babe
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In that case my original post was correct. By the way, pilots are not allowed to factor Met Vis for a Cat 2/3 approach (or LVTO, but I can't remember without looking whether that applies to LVTO below 400m or 150m).
Join Date: May 2000
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ATCbabe, just have to pick you up on one thing....
"if the rvr drops to 400m then we are in LVPs no matter what"
Not necessarily! Yes, you certainly should be using LVPs by that point but the 'P' stands for 'Procedures'. If you've forgotten to get the safeguarding done in time, or you've inadvertently taxied someone to the Cat1 hold (or they were holding there as the RVR dropped right down )etc etc, then you're not protecting the LSA and therefore you're not carrying out Low Vis Procedures.
At which point you have to use that appalling phrase "RVR 400m, the ILS is not protected" !!!!!!
"if the rvr drops to 400m then we are in LVPs no matter what"
Not necessarily! Yes, you certainly should be using LVPs by that point but the 'P' stands for 'Procedures'. If you've forgotten to get the safeguarding done in time, or you've inadvertently taxied someone to the Cat1 hold (or they were holding there as the RVR dropped right down )etc etc, then you're not protecting the LSA and therefore you're not carrying out Low Vis Procedures.
At which point you have to use that appalling phrase "RVR 400m, the ILS is not protected" !!!!!!
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Nudging,
As always you are correct. Sorry its the way I phrased it.
What I should of said was that we are in low vis and as such treat it as LVP conditions, as much as we can, even when not safeguarded.
As always you are correct. Sorry its the way I phrased it.
What I should of said was that we are in low vis and as such treat it as LVP conditions, as much as we can, even when not safeguarded.
Last edited by ATCbabe; 4th Dec 2005 at 18:10.
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I take it most of you work at airfields with all the wizz bang kit for telling you were things are when you can't see them.
What happens if your ground radar, wet bit of sea weed or what ever method you use to seperate the aircraft fails when you can't see the manovering area / active runway.
And I would say its all up to your SOP's standbyils. If the crews wern't allowed to do a 150m rvr departure the A1 would state that. And if the CAA decided that cat 1 crews wern't allowed to operate in RVR's down to 150m. The A1 wouldn't be approved until it stated that you couldn't. If the airport wasn't qualified for CAT 1 crews to depart from with the minimum RVR it would have an extra limitation in the departure minimums table. So if the SOP's say you can its Right.
I would imagine a very large percentage of turboprops/crew in the UK are CAT 1 only. Only difference is we are a bit more restricted with departure finding a departure alternate. Which with the UK's wx would be the more limiting factor than the local wx conditions.
MJ
What happens if your ground radar, wet bit of sea weed or what ever method you use to seperate the aircraft fails when you can't see the manovering area / active runway.
And I would say its all up to your SOP's standbyils. If the crews wern't allowed to do a 150m rvr departure the A1 would state that. And if the CAA decided that cat 1 crews wern't allowed to operate in RVR's down to 150m. The A1 wouldn't be approved until it stated that you couldn't. If the airport wasn't qualified for CAT 1 crews to depart from with the minimum RVR it would have an extra limitation in the departure minimums table. So if the SOP's say you can its Right.
I would imagine a very large percentage of turboprops/crew in the UK are CAT 1 only. Only difference is we are a bit more restricted with departure finding a departure alternate. Which with the UK's wx would be the more limiting factor than the local wx conditions.
MJ
