Manchester last night
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Join Date: Jul 2001
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Manchester last night
Take it controllers were finding it interesting in passing radar headings as there was a strong SW wind blowing last night.
The question is, as pilots, why dont controllers ask us more often what the upper winds are as opposed to us having to report it voluntarily in the hope of minimising frequent heading/track adjustments?
The question is, as pilots, why dont controllers ask us more often what the upper winds are as opposed to us having to report it voluntarily in the hope of minimising frequent heading/track adjustments?
Join Date: Aug 2002
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I do....and over the past few days(when it has been blowing a hooligan) I have done it more and more. Generally however the radar controller can judge how the wind is interfering with his (normally
) extremely expeditious vectors!!
) extremely expeditious vectors!!
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Can't speak for Manch, but as eastern says, we generally can work out the wind fairly accurately given the difference between your airspeed and our groundspeed display, and your allocated radar heading and your displayed track. As long as the wind affects most planes in a similar way it's not too bad. As long as you remember which ones have to turn onto the ILS early.....!
When the crosswind is strong at altitude but drops away significantly at lower levels, one heading will obviously result in a long curved track. In that case you might have to take several 'nibbling' heading adjustments. We know you can fly a track instead...but then the CAA considers you to be on your own navigation and therefore not technically radar separated from adjacent traffic. Doubtless this will change one day but we're stuck with headings for the moment.
When the crosswind is strong at altitude but drops away significantly at lower levels, one heading will obviously result in a long curved track. In that case you might have to take several 'nibbling' heading adjustments. We know you can fly a track instead...but then the CAA considers you to be on your own navigation and therefore not technically radar separated from adjacent traffic. Doubtless this will change one day but we're stuck with headings for the moment.
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When you are put on a heading to separate from other traffic that heading has to be monitored by the controller to ensure that it is working. If I am busy (or in this case high winds give me a greater level of uncertainty about my headings) I will give an initial heading that will give me far greater lateral separation than I require, in effect, building in a larger component of "room for error". As the situation develops (and if the traffic allows) I can tighten the headings up, reducing the lateral separation. Conversely, if I were quiet, I’d pass a heading that would give me the minimum 5 miles in the knowledge that I have the time to keep a close eye on both aircraft.
Some, more advanced, ATC units have electronic tools for assessing and monitoring headings.
Some, more advanced, ATC units have electronic tools for assessing and monitoring headings.
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re the earlier comment re both acft on headings,
if the acft are say 6-7 mile apart at same level then the heading for one should be good forthe otherand maintain separation as the winds applying to onewill be the same for the other. Its only when vecotoring for spacing with acft on different descent or climb profiles that the different winds will cause an issue especially where there is a large sheer in a few thousand feet
if the acft are say 6-7 mile apart at same level then the heading for one should be good forthe otherand maintain separation as the winds applying to onewill be the same for the other. Its only when vecotoring for spacing with acft on different descent or climb profiles that the different winds will cause an issue especially where there is a large sheer in a few thousand feet
