callsign queries

[myrtleman]

Two queries I wonder if anyone can help me with:

1) Is there any rationale behind Lufthansa callsigns into LHR? Are they in any way related to their departure point and why do some flights retain a numeric callsign, whilst the majority are alphanumeric?

2) What does a papa (P) stand for at the end of a callsign? I've noticed this especially with unscheduled VS flights into Heathrow and after the BA Gategourmet strike loads of flights the next day (clearly out of place) were coming in with papa at the end of their callsigns.

Thanks,
MM

[Workisfun]

Although I am not a a controller at heathrow, or an aviation enthusiast I would suggest that the Papa denotes a P-ositioning flight, i.e. not carrying pax but getting it in the right place for the next days trips. As for the first question it is probably best left to someone who knows the answer!!!

HTH

WIF

[Gonzo]

Myrtleman,

1) To me there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it. But then I haven't really looked into it in great detail. Possibly the DLHxH are Hamburg? Just guessing here.

2) Yes, usually it denotes a positioning flight. VIR tend to use the callsign VIR808P on their ferry flights to Gatwick and back.

[5milesbaby]

Lufthansa have no rationale behind their callsign allocation. Those that have the 'newer' callsigns with letters and numbers are normally because somewhere along the line a similar callsign has been flagged up and a change requested. Some operators ie GeeBee have used this to add the ICAO designator last 2 letters to the end, but I don't think Lufthansa have followed suit.

The 'Papas' normally indicate a positioning flight, however where a company has had to change due to the above mentioned then Papa has occasionally been used so it cannot be as clear cut as it seems.

[myrtleman]

Thanks for the answers - but it's odd isn't it that DLH seem to think there's a need for alphanumeric callsigns whereas other airlines with similar length callsigns and frequency of flights into London (e.g. Iberia & SAS) don't.

At least the BA shuttle callsigns have a clear logic behind them and all follow a pattern.

To return to Lufthansa, do they have the same kind of alphanumeric callsigns for all their flights (inc. intercontinental) or is it just European flights where the frequency of flights might cause callsign confusion.

as ever,
myrtleman

[PMS]

usually the P means positioning, or it could be due a similiar callsign and differentiates it for less confusion...NOT

[Gary Lager]

Use of numerics/alphanumerics is rarely just a matter of preference of airlines - there are many sound reasons for using alphanumerics, and for not using 4-digit numeric callsigns (mainly confusion with other aircraft and/or confusion between heading/level instructions).

However, the work required to implement a company-wide (or even fleet-wide) callsign change is HUGE; there is a requirement to ensure that similar AN C/Ss are not already used, or scheduled to be in the same bit of sky at the same time...so many airlines tend to keep 'historical' C/S for older routes and just add new ones as and however they can.

[A I]

Alpha Numeric Callsigns

Now this takes me back!! Anyone else remember the Alpha Numerics from the late, great Dan Air?

A I

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Dan Air Alpha Numerics

Certainly do - complex or what!

[Skipness One Echo]

British Regional (RIP) were the first big UK airline where the callsign meant zip in regard to the flight number. It still does with CitiExpress. Some you can work out, some of the LCY ones have a "CY" suffix but some are just numbers. There is no logical sequence. If you look at the Lufthansa flight numbers, all the morning arrivals at the same time are similar flight numbers!

There is a world of difference between say "Speedbird Five" and "British Six Charlie Yankee".