Are you a French ATCO based in CDG?
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Are you a French ATCO based in CDG?
The other night, I was taxiing to 09R for departure, up November taxiway when I spotted a Air France liveried Flybe RJ100 taxiing towards us at WELL over a sensible taxiing speed (by day) - I would suggest well in excess of 45kts! I remarked to the 'excellent' ground controller who had failed to mention this aircraft to us - having cleared us to K2 to hold- that we would be giving way to the 'Fast moving Air France'. To which the controller remarked 'Air France you must taxi even faster' and sarcastically thanked us for our remarks.
My point is ARE CDG ACTIVELY ENCOURAGING FAST TAXIING AT NIGHT TO CAUSE ANOTHER ACCIDENT OR ARE THEY JUST VERY POOR AT CONTROLLING A/C WHO HAVE A TRICLORE PAINTED ON THE SIDE? Discuss
IMHO CDG - you continue to be a disgrace to aviation!
My point is ARE CDG ACTIVELY ENCOURAGING FAST TAXIING AT NIGHT TO CAUSE ANOTHER ACCIDENT OR ARE THEY JUST VERY POOR AT CONTROLLING A/C WHO HAVE A TRICLORE PAINTED ON THE SIDE? Discuss
IMHO CDG - you continue to be a disgrace to aviation!
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Have you ever been to ORD? If you taxi too slowly you'd cause the whole airport to shut down. 
Ever seen SWA taxying?
Ahhh, the typical French bashing ...
Ever seen SWA taxying? Ahhh, the typical French bashing ...
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Are you sure it was Flybe?
They've not had any Air France liveried aircraft since their franchise contract ended in March '05. Maybe it was Cityjet? If it was Flybe then it would have been heading in/out of T1 as this is where Flybe operate their EXT services to/from.
They've not had any Air France liveried aircraft since their franchise contract ended in March '05. Maybe it was Cityjet? If it was Flybe then it would have been heading in/out of T1 as this is where Flybe operate their EXT services to/from.
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Ahhh, the typical French bashing ...
Appalling controlling, arrogance and the utter refusal to allow the rest of the the airport users to know what is happening, if they don't speak French, that is.
Have had to give way to Air France and French Post there many times as they simply refuse to stop or to 'hear' the clearance of another aircraft, if it has right of way ahead of them.
I've been there many times when this exact instance has happened. They couldn't care less and the lack of professionalism on the part of the Air France pilots, who should know better than to 'cut' up other aircraft is saddening to say the least.
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Perhaps you would't have said the same after their appalling controlling killed the Streamline First Officer a few years ago.
Now we getting into the foreign ATC issue again... If you are at an unfamiliar airport/country/environment be extra careful. Who's more arrogant? The person expecting the world to turn around him/her and unwilling to adapt a different environment, perhaps?
and yes, I fly into places where I don't speak the native language and where there is no ground radar. And I don't feel unsafe at all.
Funny how this comes up mainly with France.
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The bottom line is - French arrogance - I would like to think that if French was the international language of the air - I would make an effort to speak it - BUT IT ISN'T! The French ATCO's look after their own, as do the Italians and the Spanish. Combine this with a disregard to basic safe practice and you have a dangerous combination ! But hey that's just called French bashing .... We'll revist this time and again over the years but nothing will change.
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I work in an International environment and I can tell you the Brits are the most arrogant of all of us . They expect everybody to speak their language even when being a minority in a meeting just because they simply think that English is the aviation language . French aswell as Spanish , Russian , etc .... are official ICAO languages and when it comes to safety issue in ATC , the most easily understood language should be use .
In that case I suppose that most users on the frequency could tell what was going on and most importantly , the pilot and the controller concerned . I can imagine that highly educated pilots like you 
can easily learn French , if not to be used in your cockpit , at least to be able to order a pint when staying at a French hotel ; or do you expect staff to speak English as well
Appalling controlling, arrogance and the utter refusal to allow the rest of the the airport users to know what is happening, if they don't speak French, that is.
can easily learn French , if not to be used in your cockpit , at least to be able to order a pint when staying at a French hotel ; or do you expect staff to speak English as well
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'SilentHandover'
Perhaps I could also learn to speak to the language of every country I fly to in case of similar problems
At the moment that would mean I need French, German, Spanish, Italian, Portugese, Greek, Dutch and Czech! As I already get by in German and Spanish, Personally, I think I'm doing quite well
However nice a multi-lingual boom might be, perhaps CDG could realise the dangers they are creating by reducing situational awareness, which has already cost the life of one person.
When you've personally witnessed French Post 737's cutting you up, going the wrong way down a one-way taxiway, accelerating, then cutting back in fromt of you, to avoid having to taxi behind a turbo-prop, you'll know how I feel.
'Squawk7777'
Funny how it DOES always come up with France. Don't know why as I don't feel as exposed when flying into major airports in, say, Spain or Germany.
'Euskaldun'
The 'international' environment of an aircraft cockpit is a bit different. To understand the relative positions of other aircraft at a very busy international airport is hard enough in your own language. To learn enough of each language to understand this is simply not possible, as most British pilots, working for the typical LoCo airline, would have to be fluent in over a dozen. No offense, but the amount of language needed to order dinner in a foreign restaurant is much different, as is the pressure on you at the time.
Perhaps I could also learn to speak to the language of every country I fly to in case of similar problems
At the moment that would mean I need French, German, Spanish, Italian, Portugese, Greek, Dutch and Czech! As I already get by in German and Spanish, Personally, I think I'm doing quite well
However nice a multi-lingual boom might be, perhaps CDG could realise the dangers they are creating by reducing situational awareness, which has already cost the life of one person.
When you've personally witnessed French Post 737's cutting you up, going the wrong way down a one-way taxiway, accelerating, then cutting back in fromt of you, to avoid having to taxi behind a turbo-prop, you'll know how I feel.
'Squawk7777'
Funny how it DOES always come up with France. Don't know why as I don't feel as exposed when flying into major airports in, say, Spain or Germany.
'Euskaldun'
The 'international' environment of an aircraft cockpit is a bit different. To understand the relative positions of other aircraft at a very busy international airport is hard enough in your own language. To learn enough of each language to understand this is simply not possible, as most British pilots, working for the typical LoCo airline, would have to be fluent in over a dozen. No offense, but the amount of language needed to order dinner in a foreign restaurant is much different, as is the pressure on you at the time.
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The other night, I was taxiing to 09R for departure, up November taxiway when I spotted a Air France liveried Flybe RJ100 taxiing towards us at WELL over a sensible taxiing speed (by day) - I would suggest well in excess of 45kts! I remarked to the 'excellent' ground controller who had failed to mention this aircraft to us - having cleared us to K2 to hold- that we would be giving way to the 'Fast moving Air France'. To which the controller remarked 'Air France you must taxi even faster' and sarcastically thanked us for our remarks.
My point is ARE CDG ACTIVELY ENCOURAGING FAST TAXIING AT NIGHT TO CAUSE ANOTHER ACCIDENT OR ARE THEY JUST VERY POOR AT CONTROLLING A/C WHO HAVE A TRICLORE PAINTED ON THE SIDE? Discuss
My point is ARE CDG ACTIVELY ENCOURAGING FAST TAXIING AT NIGHT TO CAUSE ANOTHER ACCIDENT OR ARE THEY JUST VERY POOR AT CONTROLLING A/C WHO HAVE A TRICLORE PAINTED ON THE SIDE? Discuss
Do you really think that a controller would encourage fast taxiing at night ?
Here's my two cents for what it's worth :
What I understand of it, based only on your report is that you probably misundertood the situation and the reaction of the controller.
I'll explain that : it is a common mistake amongst french people speaking in english to use "must" instead of "should". Try replacing it: "Air France you should taxi even faster !" It would make a lot more sense to me, being a sarcastic way of telling this guy that he was taxing WAY TOO fast... and thanking you was probably genuine as the controller wasn't expecting that aircraft to be at that position as it was due to excessive taxi speed.
And I can add that my colleagues in CDG have taken very seriously the Streamline accident...
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Gentlemen
As a Brit living abroad I have learned to apologise frequently for British arrogance. Judging by this thread I won't be stopping anytime soon!!
Perhaps just once it would be nice if we tried to see things from other peoples point of view.
Prospero
As a Brit living abroad I have learned to apologise frequently for British arrogance. Judging by this thread I won't be stopping anytime soon!!
Perhaps just once it would be nice if we tried to see things from other peoples point of view.
Prospero
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Eva San - you refer to sarcasm, all well and good - but why do you think there is so much emphasis placed on strict RT, especially amongst controllers? I'm sure everyone here can take a joke, however when it comes to aviation, ambiguous intstructions, or even misunderstood ones can kill - regardless of the language.
Prove me wrong.
Prove me wrong.
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Departing 08R, over the top of the hill there was a car coming the other way. He rapidly left the runway to the right.
The incident was reported to the CDG controller who simply refused to accept there was anything on the runway (which was also the French response to the ASR)!
The incident was reported to the CDG controller who simply refused to accept there was anything on the runway (which was also the French response to the ASR)!
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Funny how it DOES always come up with France. Don't know why as I don't feel as exposed when flying into major airports in, say, Spain or Germany.
Sean Dell: Sorry bro, but you should check the facts before posting. English is NOT the only international language of the air. Who's more arrogant now? The person who only sees his language as the ONLY language? If other cultures/languages bother you, you better stay home and avoid this horrible world with its diversities.
Life gives you a choice. You can either accept "other ways" and adjust accordingly or you can lower yourself to the level of a two-year old that starts crying as soon as things are not his/her way.
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Eva San - you refer to sarcasm, all well and good - but why do you think there is so much emphasis placed on strict RT, especially amongst controllers? I'm sure everyone here can take a joke, however when it comes to aviation, ambiguous intstructions, or even misunderstood ones can kill - regardless of the language.
Prove me wrong.
Prove me wrong.
Sorry, but I was not trying to justify anything or to count points: CDG ATC 1- Sean Dell 0. So don't ask me to prove you wrong because I totally agree that a strict respect of Phraseology is essential as far as instructions are concerned...
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squawk7777 :which is the other international language of the air that you know of? I would be interested to know about it,as we had no training in other than english (as airline pilots),so maybe we can not fly in those areas where they use the language you know about.
And,by the way ,what is with this user name of yours? You like seeing 77 on the transponder? Hmm,I imagine you are on the ground while seeing that.
And,by the way ,what is with this user name of yours? You like seeing 77 on the transponder? Hmm,I imagine you are on the ground while seeing that.