Unusual EGLL arrivals
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Despite the handle - am now about 10d east of 'BCN'
Unusual EGLL arrivals
On a couple of occasions recently as a PAX into LHR, I've been treated to what I thought may have been unusual approach tracks onto 09L and 27R.
On a shuttle flight from EDI we flew the normal Wescott, Bovingdon arrival and left Bovingdon after one hold as per normal. I noticed though that we seemed to be neither heading SE over the city to join the 27s or SW out over Berkshire to join the 09s; instead we seemed to be tracking pretty much South and were not leaving FL70 either.
We then preceeded to overfly LHR and turned right to pick up the southerly downwind leg for 09L -we then decscended and joined the pattern as per an OCK or BIG arrival.
I had similar experience on a return flight from SFO into LHR where we appeared to be making the usual OCK arrival then turned left, overflew LHR and joined the Northerly downwind track for 27R.
Is this SOP? - I wondered whether it was to minimise controller workload? Noise? - both flights were arriving at peak times which puzzled me even further.
I'm curious to understand when and why these approached are flown.
Cheers
On a shuttle flight from EDI we flew the normal Wescott, Bovingdon arrival and left Bovingdon after one hold as per normal. I noticed though that we seemed to be neither heading SE over the city to join the 27s or SW out over Berkshire to join the 09s; instead we seemed to be tracking pretty much South and were not leaving FL70 either.
We then preceeded to overfly LHR and turned right to pick up the southerly downwind leg for 09L -we then decscended and joined the pattern as per an OCK or BIG arrival.
I had similar experience on a return flight from SFO into LHR where we appeared to be making the usual OCK arrival then turned left, overflew LHR and joined the Northerly downwind track for 27R.
Is this SOP? - I wondered whether it was to minimise controller workload? Noise? - both flights were arriving at peak times which puzzled me even further.
I'm curious to understand when and why these approached are flown.
Cheers
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,432
Likes: 33
From: LHR/EGLL
If you landed before 0700 local from KSFO, which is a T1 arrival, we were landing on both runways at the same time. To ensure the airfield doesn't grind to a complete halt, such T1 inbounds land on the northerly runway, and thus those from BIG and OCK doing so need to 'cross' those from LAM and BNN at some point. It is easier to fly over the field and then join the downwind leg on the northerly side, rather than doing the 'red arrows synchro pair crossover' at 10 miles out on the ILS.
Another reason, and which is more likely for your first example, is weather. Frequently there are also other a/c hanging about in our airspace which we need to avoid, including Northolt inbounds and others.
Another reason, and which is more likely for your first example, is weather. Frequently there are also other a/c hanging about in our airspace which we need to avoid, including Northolt inbounds and others.
Last edited by Gonzo; 11th October 2005 at 10:23.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Despite the handle - am now about 10d east of 'BCN'
ahh - I'd wondered about the WX being a factor on the Shuttle flight. It all makes sense now.
ref Northolt traffic - yes that has always seemed perilously close; especially, given its jet traffic in the main too.
Thanks
ref Northolt traffic - yes that has always seemed perilously close; especially, given its jet traffic in the main too.
Thanks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,757
Likes: 0
From: Apa, apo ndi kulikonse!
It happens a lot - esp when INT N and S are bandboxed so no co-ordination is needed.
Can happen for a load of reasons as Gonzo said - sometimes there is a go-around/emergency and extra track mileage is needed for the following aircraft. The aircraft may be next in sequence close behind one below and need a few extra miles (and a spin at the hold would put them too far behind) - and then there are lots of survey flights around.
Lots of reasons - some ATCO's just like using a bit if flair and the whole RMA to avoid the monotomy!!
Where's HD when you need him....?
Can happen for a load of reasons as Gonzo said - sometimes there is a go-around/emergency and extra track mileage is needed for the following aircraft. The aircraft may be next in sequence close behind one below and need a few extra miles (and a spin at the hold would put them too far behind) - and then there are lots of survey flights around.
Lots of reasons - some ATCO's just like using a bit if flair and the whole RMA to avoid the monotomy!!
Where's HD when you need him....?
Ohcirrej
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,919
Likes: 0
From: This is the internet FFS.........
and the whole RMA
) when operating on 09, it is very easy to suddenly have 1 or 2 too many aircraft off the stacks. Ideally, the point where the Final Director turns inbounds onto final is 12ish miles. However, this can very easily extend out to 18, 19 20 miles or more (if the INT Directors haven't quite been counting up track mileage accurately (Guilty your honour! 
) or a brisk easterly wind steams them downwind) The radar manoeuvering area to the west of the field in which the EGLL approach guys have to operate suddenly becomes very cramped, and taking a flight or two "over the otherside" for ride is an excellent was of building in track miles.I remember a Concorde pilot coming off OCK one afternoon who was taken over the field for a right-hand downwind exclaim "Wow. We don't get over this side very often"
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 3
From: Down at the sharp pointy end, where all the weather is made.
remember a Concorde pilot coming off OCK one afternoon who was taken over the field for a right-hand downwind exclaim "Wow. We don't get over this side very often"
TOO
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,266
Likes: 1
From: Berkshire, UK
My wife and I were pax into Heathrow last year and we did an "over the top, right-hand downwind for 27R".. On the way out I stuck my head in the flight deck, introduced myself, and said: "My chums gave you the scenic routing then?" The Captain said: "Thank God they did. There was a monster CB east of OCK and this thing would have been in bits if we'd gone through it!"
