ATC Bias
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In Europe you get duped everywhere you go! The local carriers get an insane amout of "favarouble" controling. When you return to the uk the forigin carriers get pref treatment so the UK guys don't look like they are helping the uk folks out....
Result.... Stiffed everywhere you go....
Sweet.....
Result.... Stiffed everywhere you go....
Sweet.....
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The local carriers get an insane amout of "favarouble" controling.
Nothing can be as beneficial as foc club memberships, annual flights, etc.
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In Europe you get duped everywhere you go! The local carriers get an insane amout of "favarouble" controling. When you return to the uk the forigin carriers get pref treatment so the UK guys don't look like they are helping the uk folks out....
Not get involved in silly power games. We take the cards we are dealt and then get on with it.This topic split from a thread in Dunnunda for the Europeans to have an input
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It's funny how this thread keeps coming back from time to time...
As someone said, do you really think that we, controllers, have enough spare time or spare space to always favour our local carrier ?
In France, french pilots do complain about the exact same thing, or should I say the complete opposite to the original post.
If we're to believe them, when they go to the UK BA is always favoured, in Spain Iberia always comes first and Alitalia in Italy...
And they think that the french controllers do not favour them at all...
IMHO if you have the impression that the local carrier always comes first it's probably due to statistics: when you fly in France you're just one of many traffics whereas there are loads of Air France flying around ...
As someone said, do you really think that we, controllers, have enough spare time or spare space to always favour our local carrier ?
In France, french pilots do complain about the exact same thing, or should I say the complete opposite to the original post.
If we're to believe them, when they go to the UK BA is always favoured, in Spain Iberia always comes first and Alitalia in Italy...
And they think that the french controllers do not favour them at all...
IMHO if you have the impression that the local carrier always comes first it's probably due to statistics: when you fly in France you're just one of many traffics whereas there are loads of Air France flying around ...
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I seem to remember going to the BA Club lounge at Heathrow, I thought maybe as an air traffic controller I might be allowed in, I was told basically to F**k off!
Lufthansa/KLM pilots are always very polite en route to Lambourne!
Lufthansa/KLM pilots are always very polite en route to Lambourne!
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REVOLUTION - Unless you are flying in club, why would being an ATCO get you into a BA lounge?
When BA staff fly they have no automatic right to the lounges, unless (a)they happen to have a gold or silver card, or
(b) The staff member at the reception is a generous person!
When BA staff fly they have no automatic right to the lounges, unless (a)they happen to have a gold or silver card, or
(b) The staff member at the reception is a generous person!
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Dear Revolution,
I am an ATC staff member who travels BA Club all the time and pays the full fare. I can only applaud the BA club lounge employee for his/her forthright manner.
Cheers, Tony Fallows
c/o B Watch
Swanwick
I am an ATC staff member who travels BA Club all the time and pays the full fare. I can only applaud the BA club lounge employee for his/her forthright manner.
Cheers, Tony Fallows
c/o B Watch
Swanwick
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DC10 REALMAN, I think you're missing the point. The originator of the thread was insinuating that British pilots ought to get shortcuts etc. over foreign crews. I was merely illustrating the point that air traffic controllers get no favours from british airlines so why should we give a biased air traffic control service.
Controllers where possible will 'break their balls' to give aircraft shortcuts to save mileage. This often complicates their task hugely but we do it. Pilots frequently take these short cuts for granted and don't always say thankyou. We make no distinction between UK and Foreign airlines because we are good enough at our jobs to help everyone out!
Controllers where possible will 'break their balls' to give aircraft shortcuts to save mileage. This often complicates their task hugely but we do it. Pilots frequently take these short cuts for granted and don't always say thankyou. We make no distinction between UK and Foreign airlines because we are good enough at our jobs to help everyone out!
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Show me a controller, who has been upgraded, who doesn't subsequently excercise his discretion, and I'll show you a moron.
Do airlines do favours for their own staff?-yes.
Would they be fools if they didn't do anything for people who affect their daily operation?-yes.
Not PC, but neither is the world.
Do airlines do favours for their own staff?-yes.
Would they be fools if they didn't do anything for people who affect their daily operation?-yes.
Not PC, but neither is the world.
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I've said this before but I'll say it again. I'm a controller and I'm lazy. I'll sort the aeroplanes out in whatever order sorts the traffic situation bastest - I want the aeroplanes off my frequency as quickly as possible! Don't much care whether they're on stand or on someone else's frequency, I just want to not have to worry about them. I know quite a few other controllers, heck, I even work with a bunch of them, and I don't want to besmirch their reputation too but they all seem the same as me.
To sort the aeroplanes out in any other way than that which suits the traffic situation is asking to create problems for everyone! And it may not be PC but it's not professional either.
Yup, I welcome an upgrade or a wait in a lounge to which, strictly speaking, I have no entitlement to go in if someone from the airline sees fit. Yup, I'll remember the experience kindly. And if an aircraft can get a direct routing or whatever might be welcomed I'll offer it or sort it if I can. If the traffic doesn't suit the DCT or whatever, the aircraft won't get it. But it won't make any difference whether I got an upgrade from that particular operator.
To sort the aeroplanes out in any other way than that which suits the traffic situation is asking to create problems for everyone! And it may not be PC but it's not professional either.
Yup, I welcome an upgrade or a wait in a lounge to which, strictly speaking, I have no entitlement to go in if someone from the airline sees fit. Yup, I'll remember the experience kindly. And if an aircraft can get a direct routing or whatever might be welcomed I'll offer it or sort it if I can. If the traffic doesn't suit the DCT or whatever, the aircraft won't get it. But it won't make any difference whether I got an upgrade from that particular operator.
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And it may not be PC but it's not professional either
All this talk of lounge access is missing the point.
Inbound to FRA in my shorthaul days asked to reduce speed - OK thats sequencing. Short burst of quickfire German made my colleague sit up and take notice ( that's him with a degee in German - and a German wife) What was said was to LH behind us "keep your speed up and we'll jump the Brits!"
Inbound MAD had the usual FL150 "overhead join" but this time extended routing to the south - could nearly see Seville
Again some Spanish back chat but I had another secret weapon, co-pilot lives in Spain. The phrase they used was "The Moors are at the Coast" i.e. Spaniards stick together. He replied in Spanish "Yes, but the Moors are listening"!
Favouritism for national carriers in Europe? Of course......
Inbound to FRA in my shorthaul days asked to reduce speed - OK thats sequencing. Short burst of quickfire German made my colleague sit up and take notice ( that's him with a degee in German - and a German wife) What was said was to LH behind us "keep your speed up and we'll jump the Brits!"
Inbound MAD had the usual FL150 "overhead join" but this time extended routing to the south - could nearly see Seville
Again some Spanish back chat but I had another secret weapon, co-pilot lives in Spain. The phrase they used was "The Moors are at the Coast" i.e. Spaniards stick together. He replied in Spanish "Yes, but the Moors are listening"!
Favouritism for national carriers in Europe? Of course......
Think this topic comes up way too often.
As everyone has said before no one is going to work there butts off to put a local ahead of a foreigner (or vice versa) if that flight was clearly no 2.
The point why it might seem that the locals get preference is that there are more of those flights operating than other airlines. If a direct route becomes available it will be given etc however you might hear that different flights by the same airline all get offered direct routing and then maybe only one foreign airline but think of the numbers. there might only be 1 foreign airline in the airspace at that time as opposed to 5 or 6 locals so altough everyone is getting the same preferential treatment it sounds like its biased towards the locals cause there are more of them.
As everyone has said before no one is going to work there butts off to put a local ahead of a foreigner (or vice versa) if that flight was clearly no 2.
The point why it might seem that the locals get preference is that there are more of those flights operating than other airlines. If a direct route becomes available it will be given etc however you might hear that different flights by the same airline all get offered direct routing and then maybe only one foreign airline but think of the numbers. there might only be 1 foreign airline in the airspace at that time as opposed to 5 or 6 locals so altough everyone is getting the same preferential treatment it sounds like its biased towards the locals cause there are more of them.
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None!
I am professional and I do a good job at one of the busiest units in the world!
The question being asked at the beginning of the thread was why don't we give a biased atc service to uk airlines, I was merely saying why should we, there is no incentive to do that.
If there are two aircraft on parallel headings inbound to the same stack then we do have room to manouevre, however most of the time we don't.
At the unit I work at most people aren't lazy and give all aircraft shortcuts etc. regardless of what nationality they are!
I am professional and I do a good job at one of the busiest units in the world!
The question being asked at the beginning of the thread was why don't we give a biased atc service to uk airlines, I was merely saying why should we, there is no incentive to do that.
If there are two aircraft on parallel headings inbound to the same stack then we do have room to manouevre, however most of the time we don't.
At the unit I work at most people aren't lazy and give all aircraft shortcuts etc. regardless of what nationality they are!
