South African ATC Terms and Endearment (Merged)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hotazel
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For all those of you who considers the ATNS advertisement.
Here are some facts you can work on:
R310987 gross salary package pa (R25 915.50 pm), after tax you will be left with R17 000.00 (a fact)(all alowances included)
From this you must survive.
Living cost as follows:
Agevage house (R550 000) payment R 5 500.00
Medical (2 persons) R 1 700.00
Fuel (just to/from work) R 900.00
Car payment (R140 000 small car/5yrs) R 3 100.00
Insurance (Car/house/house hold) R 800.00
Telephone R 400.00
Municipal cost (water/electricity/tax) R 1 000.00
Furniture???? R 1 000.00
Groceries (absolute minimum) R 3000.00
Total R17 400.00
Oops you're already over buget and you have not even started living yet, no money for eating out/booze/sight seeing/ saving/school fees/airline tickets. Maybe rent a house.. R4000.00, second hand car etc etc.
Still wonder why people leave... yes because they cannot survive in SA on ATNS salary performing such a demanding job.
Also wondered why the grass is always greener on the other side???? ...much more sh... on that side.
Good luck
Here are some facts you can work on:
R310987 gross salary package pa (R25 915.50 pm), after tax you will be left with R17 000.00 (a fact)(all alowances included)
From this you must survive.
Living cost as follows:
Agevage house (R550 000) payment R 5 500.00
Medical (2 persons) R 1 700.00
Fuel (just to/from work) R 900.00
Car payment (R140 000 small car/5yrs) R 3 100.00
Insurance (Car/house/house hold) R 800.00
Telephone R 400.00
Municipal cost (water/electricity/tax) R 1 000.00
Furniture???? R 1 000.00
Groceries (absolute minimum) R 3000.00
Total R17 400.00
Oops you're already over buget and you have not even started living yet, no money for eating out/booze/sight seeing/ saving/school fees/airline tickets. Maybe rent a house.. R4000.00, second hand car etc etc.
Still wonder why people leave... yes because they cannot survive in SA on ATNS salary performing such a demanding job.
Also wondered why the grass is always greener on the other side???? ...much more sh... on that side.
Good luck
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The frequency jungle
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radioexcel
That about sums up my budget. Just add the private school fees for the kids and you are even further over budget!
From the money I earn abroad, I send home roughly R20k / month and still have most of the luxuries I could want, like regular flights to SA. And ATNS ask themselves why the folks all run off.
The best thing the chaps in SA could do for themselves is learn one of the European languages, like German or French. Austria is at the moment leasing 10 ATCs from Germany to work in Vienna Center and the Swiss will be taking 5-6 foreign ATCs to start in Geneva UAC sometime soon. (French not a requirement btw) Heard that some of the Macedonians from JNB will be making the move to GVA.
Sweden is looking at trying to get all their countrymen back to Sweden as they are desperately short too! So the world is yours!
That about sums up my budget. Just add the private school fees for the kids and you are even further over budget!
From the money I earn abroad, I send home roughly R20k / month and still have most of the luxuries I could want, like regular flights to SA. And ATNS ask themselves why the folks all run off.
The best thing the chaps in SA could do for themselves is learn one of the European languages, like German or French. Austria is at the moment leasing 10 ATCs from Germany to work in Vienna Center and the Swiss will be taking 5-6 foreign ATCs to start in Geneva UAC sometime soon. (French not a requirement btw) Heard that some of the Macedonians from JNB will be making the move to GVA.
Sweden is looking at trying to get all their countrymen back to Sweden as they are desperately short too! So the world is yours!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Africa
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Jo'burg
Hi guys and gals,
Coming from Europe or some other inhabited place to Johannesburg is really terrible idea - I know I'have done it. There is a huge problem here besides salaries and living costs, about what no-one ever talks. It is called CRIME. You can't walk around Joburg city because it's too dangerous, white people you can see only inside malls and cars. There is no public transport in Johannesburg, or at least white people are not using it. There is lot's of armed hijacking and they won't hesitate to kill you. So life basically goes from electric fenced security complex to secure mall or office park. If this is the life style you like...
Despite all that the ATC's rock here in Jo'burg, they are the best!
The truth is that most of local ATC's here are leaving for ME. We have had day's in JNB APP with only 3 ATC's per shift, yet we move around 100 movements per hour. The worse is that nobody cares!
Cheers,
Saku
Coming from Europe or some other inhabited place to Johannesburg is really terrible idea - I know I'have done it. There is a huge problem here besides salaries and living costs, about what no-one ever talks. It is called CRIME. You can't walk around Joburg city because it's too dangerous, white people you can see only inside malls and cars. There is no public transport in Johannesburg, or at least white people are not using it. There is lot's of armed hijacking and they won't hesitate to kill you. So life basically goes from electric fenced security complex to secure mall or office park. If this is the life style you like...
Despite all that the ATC's rock here in Jo'burg, they are the best!
The truth is that most of local ATC's here are leaving for ME. We have had day's in JNB APP with only 3 ATC's per shift, yet we move around 100 movements per hour. The worse is that nobody cares!
Cheers,
Saku
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chwenesbeg
Age: 53
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To add to Saku's post ...
Yes, the controllers in JHB are the best bunch you're likely to find anywhere. Having been in and around the Jo'burg centre for 15 years and having left it, this fact is VERY obvious. They truly are great both as mates and colleagues.
However, only now that I've been out of SA for 2 months, can I see how stressful it is just to live day by day there. I'm not going to go into the gory details but life is very gritty in SA and you need a strong constitution to look past the nasty realities.
Bottom line, if you have a lust for adventure and money isn't an option, Jo'burg will be the best thing you could do. If you have a family and/or a respect for the rule of law, don't go.
kind regards
Yes, the controllers in JHB are the best bunch you're likely to find anywhere. Having been in and around the Jo'burg centre for 15 years and having left it, this fact is VERY obvious. They truly are great both as mates and colleagues.
However, only now that I've been out of SA for 2 months, can I see how stressful it is just to live day by day there. I'm not going to go into the gory details but life is very gritty in SA and you need a strong constitution to look past the nasty realities.
Bottom line, if you have a lust for adventure and money isn't an option, Jo'burg will be the best thing you could do. If you have a family and/or a respect for the rule of law, don't go.
kind regards
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: somewhere
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tell the truth
You guys say that JHB has such great colleagues, which is not all that true.
What about all the back stabbing that is going on that you can almost take out the knive out of some one's back.
Some peolple will even talk behind somebodies back (actually infront of him, trying not to make it that obvious) in the break room.
Please understand I am not saying that all the staff are like that, but be fore worned that you do get those type of people in JHB. But then again I suppose you get them where ever you go.
What about all the back stabbing that is going on that you can almost take out the knive out of some one's back.
Some peolple will even talk behind somebodies back (actually infront of him, trying not to make it that obvious) in the break room.
Please understand I am not saying that all the staff are like that, but be fore worned that you do get those type of people in JHB. But then again I suppose you get them where ever you go.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chwenesbeg
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Temperature hanging around the single digits, although yesterday was short sleeved shirt weather.
Skiing starts at the end of the month and I've got new everything. Dying to give snowboarding a bash at last.
LOTS of place in the restroom!!! Most ATC's here are coining around $150 000 with all the overtime. Just got to work on that sticky little security clearance issue for you guys .......... watch this space
Skiing starts at the end of the month and I've got new everything. Dying to give snowboarding a bash at last.
LOTS of place in the restroom!!! Most ATC's here are coining around $150 000 with all the overtime. Just got to work on that sticky little security clearance issue for you guys .......... watch this space
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mom's House
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I agree with Nailman...have a few mates in Jhb, everywhere in SA infact, and well I guess most would say they have great work mates....in my new enviroment I also have some great new work mates.....but honestly I have never come across such money hungry bunch of ATCs as in Jhb who only look after themselves when it comes to salary neg etc. Jhb app, n and s acc work hard and deserve their station allow, but central and east....what a joke! Anyway, my point of view......
n2n
n2n
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Right Base Rwy 12L
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Hallo Again !
So I started something long ago by asking whats up in SA ATC, how sad to see so many good guys and girls having to suffer because of the management at ATNS!
What I can not understand is that every time the company has a change in the Top structure, all these great promises are made but all turns to nothing in the end.
The worst thing in SA is that the so called 'Union" has no balls to take issues further to international level to report these issues.It is not healthy for a company to loose so many of its to quality controllers to other parts of the world.
I feel for those guys who whant to leave but can not good luck guys and keep up the great work, miss my mates Joburg!
What I can not understand is that every time the company has a change in the Top structure, all these great promises are made but all turns to nothing in the end.
The worst thing in SA is that the so called 'Union" has no balls to take issues further to international level to report these issues.It is not healthy for a company to loose so many of its to quality controllers to other parts of the world.
I feel for those guys who whant to leave but can not good luck guys and keep up the great work, miss my mates Joburg!
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Where the contracts are
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Saku - in the mid 80's we moved about the same amount of tfc/hr with 2 ATC's and seriously crappy equipment, so glad to see ATNs has made the "changes" promised when they made THE appearance circa 1993/4. Did a runner then, see the occassional unhappy ex-collegue and glad to be drifting the world flying fling wings althought the home life does suffer a tad. But then the $$$made makes up for that and I no longer have tolisten to empty promises!
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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makeapullup, tavlanorthbound,
Hey blonds, good to see things in the old Jo'ies still the same.
Tavlanorth thanx 4 the latest pic's. Still same old same old at you place ? Speel julle "soekkiebitch" ook ?
MAN ALIVE I am glad to have jumped the ship when I had a chance, sounds like NOTHING in that place will ever change except the increase of traffic levels. Has anyone told nothomemuch that it is 2005 ! Maybe he has been away to long !
Greetings from the Land not so far far away!
Tavlanorth thanx 4 the latest pic's. Still same old same old at you place ? Speel julle "soekkiebitch" ook ?
MAN ALIVE I am glad to have jumped the ship when I had a chance, sounds like NOTHING in that place will ever change except the increase of traffic levels. Has anyone told nothomemuch that it is 2005 ! Maybe he has been away to long !
Greetings from the Land not so far far away!
