Definitions of Waypoints

[Butter side-up]

Does anyone know of a database that contains definitions of waypoint for the UK and Western Euroope.

For instance DOLAS is defined as SPY/290/43 - on the 290 radial of the SPY VOR at 43 miles.

I have got lots more waypoints that I would like to be able to define in a similar manner - so that I can independently check using conventional navaids that the FMS is taking us to the correct point in space.

Thanks in advance for any pointers.

[BDiONU]

If you mean the actual geographical position, Lat & Long, the UK ones are in the UK Air Pilot En Route section 4.3. For example DOLAS is 525843N 0010003E.

HTH
BD

[Butter side-up]

Thanks.

I am actually after exact (for conventional waypoints) or approximate (for RNAV points) definitions of points based on VORs, bearings and distances.

Any further thoughts?

BSU

[BDiONU]

OIC, well try the same place, it has most of them in that format (not DOLAS though), for example DENBY is expressed as POL VOR/DME fix 163Deg/14 nm; MCT VOR/DME fix 051Deg/15 nm; MCH NDB bearing 052Deg/15 nm.

HTH
BD

[eyeinthesky]

I don't think that every RNAV waypoint is based upon a ground-based aid, that's the whole point. However, if you look at a low level airways map of the UK for example, you can often work them out from there.

E.g: SAPCO Lat and Long: N52.34.4 W01.21.4, but also TNT 163/33

However, CHELT N51.52.1 W02.22.9 seems to have no aids upon which to cross-reference.

By the way, I think you need to revisit your DOLAS measurement. 43nm is far to short. 143nm might be better!

[Butter side-up]

Thanks for your comments.

The point that you make about not being able to back up every RNAV point with conventional navaids is the conclusion that I have come to.

This make's the PNF's role on a single FMS equipped arircraft quite challenging - he is supposed to continually prove that the FMS is taking the aircraft to the correct waypoints.

Of course, each RNAV point can be defined by conventional navaids (as any point in the world can). This is the definitions that I am after - e.g. if we are cleared direct to TEBRO - I will be able to set up my conventional navaids and confirm that the aircraft is proceeding to a point that is (say) 60 miles on the 275 radial from the HMM beacon.

Does this make sense or am I missing the point?

PS - good spot about DOLAS! Thanks.

All the best

[BDiONU]

In the UK AIP it gives CHELT as HON VOR/DME fix 225Deg/40 nm; SAM VOR/DME fix 328Deg/67 nm

BD

[DFC]

The last post regarding the definition of CHELT gives a clear indication to one problem with your idea.

CHELT is defined using HON and SAM, two beacons which are not on the airway centerline which runs DUB - MID overall.

However, HON and SAM are used because of the DOC of those beacons relative to the position.

If you are say somewhere over Ireland and get a direct to CHELT, you are outside the DOC of both HON and SAM and thus can not use conventional navaids to check that position.

You can however use conventional navaids to crosscheck when you are within the DOC.

The best thing to do is to use a chart and knowing where you are now and where you have told the FMS to take you confirm that the track and distance are reasonable.

Regards,

DFC

[Butter side-up]

BDiONU & DFC

Thanks for both your postings. I agree with DFC's point about DOC - but would still like to access the that effectively "defines" these RNAV points.

BDiONU - where in the AIP is the list of defnitions of the UK RNAV points - I have had a look online but so far without success.

Does a similar list exist online for the European RNAV points?

Thanks for your continued interest.

BSU

[BDiONU]

In the UK AIP (available through here http://www.ais.org.uk/) go to the En Route Section 4. The actual page is ENR 4.3.1 It does state that other european countries publish similar info in their versions of the air pilot but I dunno where to access those (although I'm sure some other readers do )

HTH
BD

[Butter side-up]

BDiONU

Thanks for the pointer - I have found the document covering UK RNAV points.

Any help from anyone covering definitions of European RNAV points (particularly Germany Belgium, France, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Holland) would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

BSU

[055166k]

Butter side-up

It is easier to use a chart and protractor. that way you can use any navaid of your choice to cross-check....furthermore it covers the case of a particular navaid being out of service or out of range.
Most ATC units can provide a track and range to any point on request....it is our job to help you.....and may assist in the initial heading before you've got set up; we can even give you your estimated time for any waypoint.
Regards

[threemiles]

You will find access to all European AIPs here:

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/

Need to register, have java and select PAMSLIGHT

This is for Germany e.g:
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadba...ENR_4_3_en.pdf