do controllers feel inadequate?
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do controllers feel inadequate?
Having recently met 2 controllers in person I came away with a slightly negative opinion. The level of arrogance was somewhat surprising. I distinctly got the impression they liked to be the best and certainly didn't like feeling "inadequate", especially against a pilot! It was a very uncomfortable situation, albeit social (!) but are controllers in general overly confident? Why? Maybe the two I met had power issues or were bitter.
Just my 2 penny worth.
I think controllers maybe have to be a little more confident/arrogant than even airline pilots. It seems to me that any self doubt would be a great hindrance to a successful career in ATC.
I think controllers maybe have to be a little more confident/arrogant than even airline pilots. It seems to me that any self doubt would be a great hindrance to a successful career in ATC.
niknak
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Admitedly there are a few who are so wrapped up in their own self importance they can't remember their own names, (they are usually managers or aspiring managers).
But the majority of us enjoy the job and the benefits it brings too much to give a to 2 hoots about the things that inflate their ego's.
But the majority of us enjoy the job and the benefits it brings too much to give a to 2 hoots about the things that inflate their ego's.
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Depends on where the controllers work and what sort of traffic levels and complexity they have to contend with.
Those that work in the most intense situations for example, the London TMA inbound/outbound radar controllers do probably come across in this way: but as a mangement controller once said said "If you havn't got the ba**s and the bottle, you couldn't hack the job".
Someone who works at a relatively quiet location in uncomplicated airspace is probably going to be a loss less 'punchy' (and will no doubt, live longer...)
The best comparison with pilots is with military 'fast-jet' types at one end of the spectrum and GA civil flying instructors at the other. Both are professionally qualified doing essential flying jobs. But the latter doesn't require quite the same mental approach or attitude (except when the student's frighteningly incompetent!!).
Those that work in the most intense situations for example, the London TMA inbound/outbound radar controllers do probably come across in this way: but as a mangement controller once said said "If you havn't got the ba**s and the bottle, you couldn't hack the job".
Someone who works at a relatively quiet location in uncomplicated airspace is probably going to be a loss less 'punchy' (and will no doubt, live longer...)
The best comparison with pilots is with military 'fast-jet' types at one end of the spectrum and GA civil flying instructors at the other. Both are professionally qualified doing essential flying jobs. But the latter doesn't require quite the same mental approach or attitude (except when the student's frighteningly incompetent!!).
Ohcirrej
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Interesting first post.
Niknak sums it up perfectly. A level of self confidence is certainly required, but arrogance certainly isn't a common trait. As to feeling inadequate, I find that a stange word to use. The greatest thing about the job is that when you take your headset off and walk out the door, you know if you did a good job or not. You try to provide the best service you can, no matter where you are in the world.
Niknak sums it up perfectly. A level of self confidence is certainly required, but arrogance certainly isn't a common trait. As to feeling inadequate, I find that a stange word to use. The greatest thing about the job is that when you take your headset off and walk out the door, you know if you did a good job or not. You try to provide the best service you can, no matter where you are in the world.
Panthera pardus puella
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to answer the question - no
maybe it was indifference, not arrogance
were you just upset that they didnt bow down to your piloty type greatness?
yaffs
maybe it was indifference, not arrogance
were you just upset that they didnt bow down to your piloty type greatness?
yaffs
Just Binos
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I was wondering the same thing, yaffs. Whose perception was it that they felt inadequate next to a pilot? The pilot's? Was he perhaps a little perturbed that they didn't seem to feel inadequate against him? Who knows?
I tend to disagree with Jerricho a little here, I don't think there's any doubt that a certain level of arrogance exists, almost as a requirement for the job. The crossover between self-confidence and arrogance is a thin one, and very much in the eye of the beholder.
I tend to disagree with Jerricho a little here, I don't think there's any doubt that a certain level of arrogance exists, almost as a requirement for the job. The crossover between self-confidence and arrogance is a thin one, and very much in the eye of the beholder.
Ohcirrej
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Thinking about it that Binos, I guess you're right. There are people out there who are more than willing to try and show you how big they think their dick is compared to everybody else 
(Unlike me, cause I'm hung like the planet Pluto)
(Unlike me, cause I'm hung like the planet Pluto)
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(Unlike me, cause I'm hung like the planet Pluto)
Barump-bump.
Anyway... We're all like that. Insufferable. Can you blame us? We save you from yourselves and this is the thanks we get? You have the nerve to complain? Are we controllers up there trying to run into you? No sir. It's other pilots. But enough of this...
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a pilot who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very separation I provide, then questions the manner in which I boast about it while I'm drinking. I'd prefer you just said “thank you” and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get checked out on a position and work it.
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...and you can't see it with the naked eye...
Geez. One US ATC finishes Jerricho's joke and another US ATC gets the credit. Is it because he's a Center puke, Jerricho? Is THAT why he gets all the credit?
It again reminds me of the fundamental sorts of stuff that Center and TRACON controllers do and how they differ (Yes, Jerricho, you've heard this before!)...
Typical TRACON R/T: "United 52 Heavy five miles from Limma turn left heading 270 maintain three thousand two hundred until established on the localizer cleared ILS runway 25 left approach."
Typical Center conversation:
United 52 Heavy: "Fort Worth Center United 52 Heavy level FL330."
Center: "United 52 Heavy Fort Worth roger."
Then, on top of that, he gets JOKE CREDIT as well? Dunno what to say...
Dave
Geez. One US ATC finishes Jerricho's joke and another US ATC gets the credit. Is it because he's a Center puke, Jerricho? Is THAT why he gets all the credit?
It again reminds me of the fundamental sorts of stuff that Center and TRACON controllers do and how they differ (Yes, Jerricho, you've heard this before!)...
Typical TRACON R/T: "United 52 Heavy five miles from Limma turn left heading 270 maintain three thousand two hundred until established on the localizer cleared ILS runway 25 left approach."
Typical Center conversation:
United 52 Heavy: "Fort Worth Center United 52 Heavy level FL330."
Center: "United 52 Heavy Fort Worth roger."
Then, on top of that, he gets JOKE CREDIT as well? Dunno what to say...
Dave
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purr777:
I would like to know the age of the two "arrogant" ATCO's - and Yours', by the way. . I've personally learned a lot from bar-room hand "dogfights" with all sorts of pilots.
Best regards
I would like to know the age of the two "arrogant" ATCO's - and Yours', by the way.
. I've personally learned a lot from bar-room hand "dogfights" with all sorts of pilots.Best regards
Ohcirrej
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No no Dave, you have it all wrong.
It just took Scott a little longer, and I was congratulating him ono getting with the program
(I tried to find something lie a "Pat Scott on the head" smiley, but couldn't, and the sarcastic one didn't quite look right)
Wait, I found one................
It just took Scott a little longer, and I was congratulating him ono getting with the program
(I tried to find something lie a "Pat Scott on the head" smiley, but couldn't, and the sarcastic one didn't quite look right)
Wait, I found one................
Last edited by Jerricho; 1st Aug 2005 at 21:10.
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to quote av8 boy:
Typical TRACON R/T: "United 52 Heavy five miles from Limma turn left heading 270 maintain three thousand two hundred until established on the localizer cleared ILS runway 25 left approach."
Oh lordy if only it were that simple in the uk...
typical enroute (TRACON) r/t:
Spanair 1156: London Spanair 1156
London: Spanair 1156 go ahead?
Spanair 1156: errrr spanair 1156 level 330
London: <slowly and clearly> Spanair 1156 london roger route direct avant then midhurst, ockham, hemel, Pigot 1 juliet arrival for East Midlands.
<silence>
London: Spanair 1156 did you copy? route avant, midhurst ockham hemel Pigot 1 juliet arrival for east midlands.
Spanair 1156: Roger route kathy midhhhhurst hhhhemel ockhhhham.
etc etc etc...
Typical TRACON R/T: "United 52 Heavy five miles from Limma turn left heading 270 maintain three thousand two hundred until established on the localizer cleared ILS runway 25 left approach."
Oh lordy if only it were that simple in the uk...
typical enroute (TRACON) r/t:
Spanair 1156: London Spanair 1156
London: Spanair 1156 go ahead?
Spanair 1156: errrr spanair 1156 level 330
London: <slowly and clearly> Spanair 1156 london roger route direct avant then midhurst, ockham, hemel, Pigot 1 juliet arrival for East Midlands.
<silence>
London: Spanair 1156 did you copy? route avant, midhurst ockham hemel Pigot 1 juliet arrival for east midlands.
Spanair 1156: Roger route kathy midhhhhurst hhhhemel ockhhhham.
etc etc etc...