Manch Atc
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Joined: Feb 2005
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From: The Harbour
Manch Atc
26 July 134.42
Going into manch from the south yesterday twice the controller was obviously V.Busy to the point where there must have been 5 or so aircraft waiting to check in. The controller wasn't leaving any chance of getting a word in.
Now before I get slated I know he/she had lots to deal with. But there was a birdseed trying to confirm his cleared level. Seems like a safety issue.
Then without even checking in... you were just issued a instruction. no checking of levels etc...
Wouldn't it make sense to split this sector...??
Cheers
Going into manch from the south yesterday twice the controller was obviously V.Busy to the point where there must have been 5 or so aircraft waiting to check in. The controller wasn't leaving any chance of getting a word in.
Now before I get slated I know he/she had lots to deal with. But there was a birdseed trying to confirm his cleared level. Seems like a safety issue.
Then without even checking in... you were just issued a instruction. no checking of levels etc...
Wouldn't it make sense to split this sector...??
Cheers
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,266
Likes: 1
From: Berkshire, UK
<<and are issued with an instruction, that includes a level, then the controller has no requirement or need to check the cleared level, it just wastes valuable time>>
Wow! Things have change drastically since I retired. You mean that readbacks of cleared levels are no longer mandatory?
Wow! Things have change drastically since I retired. You mean that readbacks of cleared levels are no longer mandatory?
)
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,804
Likes: 1
The way I read the post. Which is maybe me reading in what actually happens sometimes.
When the frq is near saturation and the controller is going like steam train hardly pausing between read backs and the next instruction.
When you get transfered onto freq you can't get a word in without stepping on someone. Or when you do think you can get in all you hear is "stepped on break break...." Then out the blue you will get an instruction eg "xxx climb flight level 160, turn heading 350 degrees". You read it back and off you go. I presume what the post was meaning was that if you do get an instruction before booking in so be it, service as normal from then on. Whats not being checked is the Flight level your at/passing or the clearance you have been given by the previous sector.
I am quite sure the controller was less than happy about having to work like that. It opens up a can of worms if anything goes wrong. You are aready working with 5-6 dominoes in a line for your accident domino race. Its not pleasant for either party.
I seem to remember a few Chirp reports recently on this subject as well.
MJ
When the frq is near saturation and the controller is going like steam train hardly pausing between read backs and the next instruction.
When you get transfered onto freq you can't get a word in without stepping on someone. Or when you do think you can get in all you hear is "stepped on break break...." Then out the blue you will get an instruction eg "xxx climb flight level 160, turn heading 350 degrees". You read it back and off you go. I presume what the post was meaning was that if you do get an instruction before booking in so be it, service as normal from then on. Whats not being checked is the Flight level your at/passing or the clearance you have been given by the previous sector.
I am quite sure the controller was less than happy about having to work like that. It opens up a can of worms if anything goes wrong. You are aready working with 5-6 dominoes in a line for your accident domino race. Its not pleasant for either party.
I seem to remember a few Chirp reports recently on this subject as well.
MJ
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 359
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Been there, done that...
on the DOVER sector a few times.
TMA departing aircraft climbed to FL170 and transferred from terminal control to en-route.
Frequency very busy, aircraft levels at FL170 for say 10 miles.
Bit of a waste of time asking, "are you ln frequency? and confirm you are maintaining FL170"
Issue the instruction to "continue present heading/Fly heading XXX and Climb FLZZZ"
Aircraft reads it back, hunky dory. Aircraft doesn't read it back, then probably not on freq and TC are v.busy too.
OK, it's not ideal but sometimes it has to be done for a few minutes to hold on while someone wanders back from the smokers Hut to split the sector.
Of course if said aircraft was observed bobbing along at FL173 for 10 miles, the above wouldn't be a good course of action!
TMA departing aircraft climbed to FL170 and transferred from terminal control to en-route.
Frequency very busy, aircraft levels at FL170 for say 10 miles.
Bit of a waste of time asking, "are you ln frequency? and confirm you are maintaining FL170"
Issue the instruction to "continue present heading/Fly heading XXX and Climb FLZZZ"
Aircraft reads it back, hunky dory. Aircraft doesn't read it back, then probably not on freq and TC are v.busy too.
OK, it's not ideal but sometimes it has to be done for a few minutes to hold on while someone wanders back from the smokers Hut to split the sector.
Of course if said aircraft was observed bobbing along at FL173 for 10 miles, the above wouldn't be a good course of action!
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 892
Likes: 6
From: southampton,hampshire,england
Sorry chaps, but that's what management wants.....maximum continuous traffic with minimum [ or less ] controllers. Talking of management, spare a thought for all the Alstom employees leaving work for the last time to-day down at Eastleigh .....the end of an era....Oh my goodness!......who's in charge of NATS now?
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 58
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From: UK
Manch had many Regulations on yesterday to keep their sectors Bandboxed due to lack of staff. This can easily be confirmed by checking the regulation type with CFMU Brussels i.e. staffing regs. Rumour control has it that this is due to the staff cutting back on overtime due to the unit becoming completely reliant on it to staff up on a daily basis.
Instead of whinging about it on here, file a frequency congestion report with NATS and it will be investigated and reported back to you or your company.
Instead of whinging about it on here, file a frequency congestion report with NATS and it will be investigated and reported back to you or your company.
