AirProx
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AirProx
Just a quick question, can anyone direct me to where i can download an airporx form for the controllers side? Iv been asked to file one as well as a MOR however can only find the form from the 'pilot side'
Regards
H27Left
Regards
H27Left
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suggest you e-mail [email protected] and ask for one. They were very helpfull when I filed (as a pilot) a few weeks ago.
rgards
rgards
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Just a quick question, can anyone direct me to where i can download an airporx form for the controllers side?
Does that mean that there's no one in charge of safety matters in Liverpool ?
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Eva San you are assuming that Hold27Left is a Liverpool controller. If he/she is they must be a bit daft, there's a bleedin' great stack of them on the supervisors desk!
The naivety of the original question suggests a wannabe, and if Hold27Left is an ATCO then he should prepare himself for a mammoth p*ss taking session when we find out who he is
The naivety of the original question suggests a wannabe, and if Hold27Left is an ATCO then he should prepare himself for a mammoth p*ss taking session when we find out who he is
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I am no wannabe and as it was said by EGBT there are plenty of aerodromes / airports around the northwest,.. dont have to work at liverpool just becuase i live there 
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So, now we know that Hold27Left is not a wannabee, which I'll take as he's a controller. He doesn't work at John Lennon but in a field closeby.
So I 'll just rephrase a bit my question:
Does that mean that there's no one in charge of safety matters at Hold27Left's airport ? Or maybe even worse, he's in charge of safety matters, but he has been so well prepared and briefed for his mission that he doesn't know how to find an Airprox form...
So I 'll just rephrase a bit my question:
Does that mean that there's no one in charge of safety matters at Hold27Left's airport ? Or maybe even worse, he's in charge of safety matters, but he has been so well prepared and briefed for his mission that he doesn't know how to find an Airprox form...
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This raises an interesting point - An airprox is defined as :
" situation in which, in the opinion of a pilot or a controller, the distance between aircraft as well as their relative positions and speed have been such that the safety of the aircraft involved was or may have been compromised. "
Without giving away Hold27Left's location (it can't be that hard to work out though from his previous posts though
), it appears the UKAB will accept reports from non-controllers who provide an Air Traffic service (See Airprox 165/03 for an example).
Hold27Left's question is therefore valid as guidance on how to file these reports will not have been formally provided, (in the licence syllabus).
" situation in which, in the opinion of a pilot or a controller, the distance between aircraft as well as their relative positions and speed have been such that the safety of the aircraft involved was or may have been compromised. "
Without giving away Hold27Left's location (it can't be that hard to work out though from his previous posts though
), it appears the UKAB will accept reports from non-controllers who provide an Air Traffic service (See Airprox 165/03 for an example). Hold27Left's question is therefore valid as guidance on how to file these reports will not have been formally provided, (in the licence syllabus).
Last edited by Squadgy; 27th Jun 2005 at 13:39.
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Hold27Left's question is therefore valid as guidance on how to file these reports will not have been formally provided.
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How are they expected to submit the forms if they have no formal training in how to do it
I do however agree it would be sensible to have forms available - it would have saved me some trouble, but then the field I was flying from that day only has an a/g service.
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Maybe "formal training" wasn't quite appropriate, but I was shown how to fill them in and the principles behind the forms themselves as part of my first validation training. There's also advice for controllers in CAP 493 (MATS Pt 1).
You're right regarding them not being difficult to fill in, but I usually take a few goes to get it right, you know.....tick the wrong box, score out the wrong choice etc
. I think fundamentally the difficulty is knowing when to fill out a form. At an ATC unit the training & safety culture means that it becomes part of your overall repetoire as an ATCO as to when to reach for the forms, the process is well tested and comes automatically. You also learn when it is perhaps appropriate not to fill one out!!
I really don't know if there is a guide for non-ATC / Pilot types out there......perhaps there should be?
You're right regarding them not being difficult to fill in, but I usually take a few goes to get it right, you know.....tick the wrong box, score out the wrong choice etc
. I think fundamentally the difficulty is knowing when to fill out a form. At an ATC unit the training & safety culture means that it becomes part of your overall repetoire as an ATCO as to when to reach for the forms, the process is well tested and comes automatically. You also learn when it is perhaps appropriate not to fill one out!! I really don't know if there is a guide for non-ATC / Pilot types out there......perhaps there should be?
Last edited by squibbler; 27th Jun 2005 at 20:02.
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squibbler
I would agree with what you are saying, and there have been times when you 'let them slip' however this one was serious. An MOR was filed and recieved by the relevant people however it was also requested that the correct Airprox form was also filled in to which the 'unit' i work at have non at hand. My post on here was to ask if anyone knew who or where i could retrieve the relevant document from.
Regards
Hold27Left.
I would agree with what you are saying, and there have been times when you 'let them slip' however this one was serious. An MOR was filed and recieved by the relevant people however it was also requested that the correct Airprox form was also filled in to which the 'unit' i work at have non at hand. My post on here was to ask if anyone knew who or where i could retrieve the relevant document from.
Regards
Hold27Left.
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Squibbler
I agree knowing when to file is the big problem, after mine I talked to the a/c operator, who also taught me to fly, he gave good general advice but said it was down to me. I then sent an e-mail outlining the incident to the AirProx Board and (probably inevitably) they sent me the form, so I filed.
Given that it would have been a brown trouser job if I had had time to think - 150 (OK perhaps 200-300?) ft separation, 90deg crossing @ 100Knt), filing seemed a reasonable thing to do. Having said that I guess there will be few new lessons from the incident (no ATC involvement, GA vs GA) but we can hope that it contributes to the overall picture of what is going on out there and that has to be the guiding principle.
I just hope I don’t ever have to file another. And I hope my wife does not find out about this one!
I agree knowing when to file is the big problem, after mine I talked to the a/c operator, who also taught me to fly, he gave good general advice but said it was down to me. I then sent an e-mail outlining the incident to the AirProx Board and (probably inevitably) they sent me the form, so I filed.
Given that it would have been a brown trouser job if I had had time to think - 150 (OK perhaps 200-300?) ft separation, 90deg crossing @ 100Knt), filing seemed a reasonable thing to do. Having said that I guess there will be few new lessons from the incident (no ATC involvement, GA vs GA) but we can hope that it contributes to the overall picture of what is going on out there and that has to be the guiding principle.
I just hope I don’t ever have to file another. And I hope my wife does not find out about this one!
