Irish Sea crossing questions
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Irish Sea crossing questions
As a relatively wet behind the ears pilot I thought I'd seek clarification on a couple of issues from the ATC forum.
Last week saw me cross LLandudno-IOM-EGAA VFR for the first time and the experience raised a number of questions in my mind regarding the conduct of the same route IFR (I am IMC rated but as yet relatively inexperienced at long IFR flights).
Q1: The flight plan was VFR. If I'd filed IFR at FL45 what (if any) differences would there be to the way the flight is handled?
Initially I was at FL45 getting a RIS from Shawbury. They handed me over to Valley and as I buzzed onward towards the IOM class D I began to wonder if a similar handover would take place. As I drew closer to the class D and no handover had as yet taken plave I requested QSY to Ronaldsway to negotiate a zone transit clearance.
Q2: Would the handover have come if I'd waited or would I have blundered into class D without a clearance if I'd waited?
The zone clearance from Ronaldsway was VFR (which was fine on the day).
Q3: If conditions require an IFR clearance and I can accept such a clearance can I just ask for it?
Q4: Am I correct in thinking that within the class D IFR traffic doesn't have to adhere to the quadrangle levels thus I could ask for any level up to FL60 (avoiding the base of class A at FL65)?
Last week saw me cross LLandudno-IOM-EGAA VFR for the first time and the experience raised a number of questions in my mind regarding the conduct of the same route IFR (I am IMC rated but as yet relatively inexperienced at long IFR flights).
Q1: The flight plan was VFR. If I'd filed IFR at FL45 what (if any) differences would there be to the way the flight is handled?
Initially I was at FL45 getting a RIS from Shawbury. They handed me over to Valley and as I buzzed onward towards the IOM class D I began to wonder if a similar handover would take place. As I drew closer to the class D and no handover had as yet taken plave I requested QSY to Ronaldsway to negotiate a zone transit clearance.
Q2: Would the handover have come if I'd waited or would I have blundered into class D without a clearance if I'd waited?
The zone clearance from Ronaldsway was VFR (which was fine on the day).
Q3: If conditions require an IFR clearance and I can accept such a clearance can I just ask for it?
Q4: Am I correct in thinking that within the class D IFR traffic doesn't have to adhere to the quadrangle levels thus I could ask for any level up to FL60 (avoiding the base of class A at FL65)?
Join Date: Oct 2000
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I'm not a Ronalsway controller so cannot answer specifically about their operations but in generally speaking the answers would be:
1: I'm not sure exactly what you mean by how "the flight is handled", but from a controller's point of view whether you are VFR or IFR receiving a RIS you would be treated the same way i.e. a RIS is a standard level of service irrespective of flight rules.
2: If you have not received a clearance ask for one (approx. 10 mins before the boundary of CAS). Either Shawbury would have asked you to 'freecall' Ronaldsway radar or if they weren't too busy would have passed on your details and may obtain a clearance from EGNS.
Never assume coordination has taken place between controllers or a clearance has been granted, always question it.
3: Yes just ask for the IFR clearance. However if EGNS radar is busy then they may just tell you to remain clear or delay the clearance until traffic eases.
4: In class D airspace controllers have to
(a) separate IFR flights from other IFR flights
(b) pass traffic information to IFR flights on VFR flights and give
traffic avoidance advice if requested
(c) pass traffic information to VFR flights on IFR flights and other
VFR flights
In order to aid separation, flights will often be cleared at whole flight levels when IFR (unless they being vectored for approach) i.e. using the semi-circular rule.
1: I'm not sure exactly what you mean by how "the flight is handled", but from a controller's point of view whether you are VFR or IFR receiving a RIS you would be treated the same way i.e. a RIS is a standard level of service irrespective of flight rules.
2: If you have not received a clearance ask for one (approx. 10 mins before the boundary of CAS). Either Shawbury would have asked you to 'freecall' Ronaldsway radar or if they weren't too busy would have passed on your details and may obtain a clearance from EGNS.
Never assume coordination has taken place between controllers or a clearance has been granted, always question it.
3: Yes just ask for the IFR clearance. However if EGNS radar is busy then they may just tell you to remain clear or delay the clearance until traffic eases.
4: In class D airspace controllers have to
(a) separate IFR flights from other IFR flights
(b) pass traffic information to IFR flights on VFR flights and give
traffic avoidance advice if requested
(c) pass traffic information to VFR flights on IFR flights and other
VFR flights
In order to aid separation, flights will often be cleared at whole flight levels when IFR (unless they being vectored for approach) i.e. using the semi-circular rule.
