In flight wake vortex
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In flight wake vortex
I am aware of the separation used at airfields to aviod wake vortex incidents, but wondered how much of an issue or concern it is for controllers when providing an information service?
For example, if I am flying South from Wycombe Blackbushe, at the edge of the London CTR and just below the 2500ft base of the LTMA, with an FIS or RIS from Heathrow Radar, would the controller consider the issue of Wave Vortex from Heathrow departures, or in practice are they sufficiently clear of the edges of the controlled airspace for it not to be an issue?
There was a recent AAIB report of a helicopter affected by turbulence near Luton that was put down to wake vortex, which is the only incident that I have heard of.
For example, if I am flying South from Wycombe Blackbushe, at the edge of the London CTR and just below the 2500ft base of the LTMA, with an FIS or RIS from Heathrow Radar, would the controller consider the issue of Wave Vortex from Heathrow departures, or in practice are they sufficiently clear of the edges of the controlled airspace for it not to be an issue?
There was a recent AAIB report of a helicopter affected by turbulence near Luton that was put down to wake vortex, which is the only incident that I have heard of.
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If you are flying outside controlled airspace and at a height which is not "known" to ATC no vortex wake separation will be provided.
If you fly at 2500 ft just outside the zone boundary you should be over 1000 ft below any Heathrow inbounds so you should not experience any problems. If you do experience wake turbulence you are encouraged to report the fact, together with any details you can provide of the aircraft generating it.
If you fly at 2500 ft just outside the zone boundary you should be over 1000 ft below any Heathrow inbounds so you should not experience any problems. If you do experience wake turbulence you are encouraged to report the fact, together with any details you can provide of the aircraft generating it.
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Hi 221B,
This is quite possible in the bit of airspace you mention, west of the London CTR, where the base of controlled airspace is 2500ft.
As you will know, many light aircraft will fly in this area at or below 2400ft (2499ft in theory) - and it is not unknown for Heathrow inbound traffic to be level at (or descending to) 3000ft in this area.
As HD says, the CDAs (continuous descent approaches) that are encouraged at Heathrow will normally mean that the inbounds are at least 1000ft above you - but they don't have to be and there are many reasons why they often aren't!
An example is a go-around from 09L. These can (and often do) remain at 3000ft as they are re-sequenced in the 'circuit' provided they are on a base leg by around WOD (to remain in CAS). For your info, this includes 747 / 777s!
In answer to your question, at least from a Heathrow Approach ATCO's point of view, no, we are not required to provide any vortex separation in this situation. However many will try, usually by not dropping the inbound to 3000 when there's a 2400 chugging along underneath!
As far as the ATCO giving you the RAS / RIS / FIS goes, I'm not sure whether they are required to advise you about vortex or not. If anything, it would just be an advisory caution, for you to act on at your own discretion!
Cheerio,
AI
P.S. Departures of 27R/L are rarely an issue as they are usually too high to be a problem to you.
This is quite possible in the bit of airspace you mention, west of the London CTR, where the base of controlled airspace is 2500ft.
As you will know, many light aircraft will fly in this area at or below 2400ft (2499ft in theory) - and it is not unknown for Heathrow inbound traffic to be level at (or descending to) 3000ft in this area.
As HD says, the CDAs (continuous descent approaches) that are encouraged at Heathrow will normally mean that the inbounds are at least 1000ft above you - but they don't have to be and there are many reasons why they often aren't!
An example is a go-around from 09L. These can (and often do) remain at 3000ft as they are re-sequenced in the 'circuit' provided they are on a base leg by around WOD (to remain in CAS). For your info, this includes 747 / 777s!
In answer to your question, at least from a Heathrow Approach ATCO's point of view, no, we are not required to provide any vortex separation in this situation. However many will try, usually by not dropping the inbound to 3000 when there's a 2400 chugging along underneath!
As far as the ATCO giving you the RAS / RIS / FIS goes, I'm not sure whether they are required to advise you about vortex or not. If anything, it would just be an advisory caution, for you to act on at your own discretion!
Cheerio,
AI
P.S. Departures of 27R/L are rarely an issue as they are usually too high to be a problem to you.
Last edited by Aluminium Importer; 5th Jun 2005 at 07:54.
