Controller ordered RTO.
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Controller ordered RTO.
Having seen (or rather listened in on one at LHR a few weeks ago) I was wondering what guidelines are laid down for a controller to instruct an aircraft, on the roll, to Stop.
Just asking, as the one that happened at LHR just after we were airborne from 09R, involved a BA777 well into his T/O run, and a KLM aircraft landing 09R who went around as he wasn't happy to accept a 'land after' clearance.
The controller obviously won't know what the V1 speed is for the aircraft on the roll, and if it's a heavy widebody (or even an Airbus with silly 'card' produced speeds!) he could quite possibly be passed V1 when ordered to stop.
Just to clarify, I'm not criticising the controller at all, just wondering what your procedures are.
Ta,
Rat.
Just asking, as the one that happened at LHR just after we were airborne from 09R, involved a BA777 well into his T/O run, and a KLM aircraft landing 09R who went around as he wasn't happy to accept a 'land after' clearance.
The controller obviously won't know what the V1 speed is for the aircraft on the roll, and if it's a heavy widebody (or even an Airbus with silly 'card' produced speeds!) he could quite possibly be passed V1 when ordered to stop.
Just to clarify, I'm not criticising the controller at all, just wondering what your procedures are.
Ta,
Rat.
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Generally, when it comes to an individual aircraft type's performance capabilities, controllers don't have a clue. Ocasionally the controller will throw something out to see if the pilot "bites." I'm not being facetious here. Controllers really do not know much about what an aircraft can or cannot do. With the termination of cockpit visits, the knowledge level continues to drop.
That being said, one would hope the controller has enough experience and judgment to always issue control instructions with which the pilot can safely comply ... but don't bet your life on it.
FAA 7110.65P
(Edited to add reference)
That being said, one would hope the controller has enough experience and judgment to always issue control instructions with which the pilot can safely comply ... but don't bet your life on it.
FAA 7110.65P
(Edited to add reference)
Last edited by atcea.com; 29th Apr 2005 at 19:34.
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As far as I can remember, JSP 552 for us mil types, states that a controller can cancel a take off clearance up to the point before the aircraft commences its roll. Once the aircraft moves, the controller is only to issue pertinent information relating to the hazard and then let the crew deal with the situation. I can only assume that this is based on aircraft and crew capabilities.
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UK guidance from the Manual of Air Traffic Services Part 1
but I understand that this guidance is under review at the moment.
[Edited for spilling]
14 Cancelling Take-off Clearance
14.1 If, for any reason, take-off clearance has to be cancelled before the take-off run has commenced, the pilot shall be instructed to hold position and to acknowledge the instruction. If the aerodrome controller considers that it is necessary to cancel takeoff clearance after the aircraft has commenced the take-off run, the pilot shall be instructed to stop immediately and to acknowledge the instruction.
14.2 The cancellation of a take-off clearance after an aircraft has commenced its take-off roll should only occur when the aircraft will be in serious and imminent danger should it continue. Controllers should be aware of the potential for an aircraft to overrun the end of the runway if the take-off is abandoned, particularly in the case of a large aircraft or when the runway braking may be adversely affected. Because of this risk, even if a take-off clearance is cancelled, the commander of the aircraft may consider it safer to continue the take-off than to attempt to stop the aircraft.
14.3 Controllers should also be aware of the possibility that an aircraft that abandons its take-off may suffer overheated brakes or other abnormal situation and should be prepared to declare the appropriate category of emergency or to provide other suitable assistance.
14.1 If, for any reason, take-off clearance has to be cancelled before the take-off run has commenced, the pilot shall be instructed to hold position and to acknowledge the instruction. If the aerodrome controller considers that it is necessary to cancel takeoff clearance after the aircraft has commenced the take-off run, the pilot shall be instructed to stop immediately and to acknowledge the instruction.
14.2 The cancellation of a take-off clearance after an aircraft has commenced its take-off roll should only occur when the aircraft will be in serious and imminent danger should it continue. Controllers should be aware of the potential for an aircraft to overrun the end of the runway if the take-off is abandoned, particularly in the case of a large aircraft or when the runway braking may be adversely affected. Because of this risk, even if a take-off clearance is cancelled, the commander of the aircraft may consider it safer to continue the take-off than to attempt to stop the aircraft.
14.3 Controllers should also be aware of the possibility that an aircraft that abandons its take-off may suffer overheated brakes or other abnormal situation and should be prepared to declare the appropriate category of emergency or to provide other suitable assistance.
[Edited for spilling]
Last edited by Spitoon; 30th Apr 2005 at 19:27.
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The procedure is similiar here in the U.S. to what Spitoon posted. What is immportant is that you should tell the pilot why you are instructing them to abort, then it is up to the pilots to determine if it would be safe to abort.
The only reason that a controller should instruct a pilot to abort their takeoff after they started their takeoff roll is if a serious situation has developed that puts the aircraft imminent danger.
The only reason that a controller should instruct a pilot to abort their takeoff after they started their takeoff roll is if a serious situation has developed that puts the aircraft imminent danger.
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If it helps, my departure brief includes...
...above eighty knots, I'll stop for any indication of fire, an engine malfunction, an unsafe or unflyable condition of any kind, or an instruction from ATC which I choose to accept'.
I'd base the decision to accept it on speed, weight, runway length, and anything else that seemed pertinent...
...above eighty knots, I'll stop for any indication of fire, an engine malfunction, an unsafe or unflyable condition of any kind, or an instruction from ATC which I choose to accept'.
I'd base the decision to accept it on speed, weight, runway length, and anything else that seemed pertinent...
