Fowarding 'Idents' before being asked..
Thread Starter
Fowarding 'Idents' before being asked..
A growing number of my colleagues departing Belfast (BFS) are making initial contact with Radar with the typical
"Aldergrove Radar, xxx123, Bla bla bla, IDENTING 4567"
as they know an Ident and passing level would otherwise be requested from them in the next transmission.
The response more often than not from friends in ATC would be "Thanks for the Ident ..... "
The situation is further developing where guys are also doing the same when handed over to the next sector (Scottish). However many of the Scottish Controller still ask for the Ident again.
Forgetting the 'its handy' and 'provides continuous climb' arguments - could someone with expertise in this field please let me know if this is correct practise as I dont think it is.
(Wasn't there some incident years ago of a BA & BMI with crossed XPDR codes and misinterpreted idents?)
Ta very much
4T
"Aldergrove Radar, xxx123, Bla bla bla, IDENTING 4567"
as they know an Ident and passing level would otherwise be requested from them in the next transmission.
The response more often than not from friends in ATC would be "Thanks for the Ident ..... "
The situation is further developing where guys are also doing the same when handed over to the next sector (Scottish). However many of the Scottish Controller still ask for the Ident again.
Forgetting the 'its handy' and 'provides continuous climb' arguments - could someone with expertise in this field please let me know if this is correct practise as I dont think it is.
(Wasn't there some incident years ago of a BA & BMI with crossed XPDR codes and misinterpreted idents?)
Ta very much
4T
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It's incorrect in my opinion. An ident should be observed AFTER it is asked for in order to validate the squawk. You could otherwise be identing at the same time as someone else on the frequency, the request for which may have come just before you arrived on the freq. There are also plenty of instances of idents down to finger trouble or a dodgy transponder. Just yesterday, a King Air was identing for the whole flight from Calgary to Edmonton...
I'm Just A Lawnmower
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Yup, the pilot should only ident when asked to do so by the controller. It really is that simple.
The mistaken identity case mentioned took place quite a few years ago and, if I remember rightly, was caused by the transposing of squarks after take off and the data was transferred manually between ScACC and LATCC. Of course we are all connected to the same super duper computer now so that could never happen
The mistaken identity case mentioned took place quite a few years ago and, if I remember rightly, was caused by the transposing of squarks after take off and the data was transferred manually between ScACC and LATCC. Of course we are all connected to the same super duper computer now so that could never happen
StandupfortheUlstermen
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Personally, I find it a bit distracting when one of my deps idents before I've requested it. It can draw my attention away from what I'm doing. Anyway, if I don't happen to notice it, I'll ask for it if it's needed, ergo, extra workload for the pilot (and therefore less time to drink their coffee!).
Thankfully, it doesn't happen much at Brizzel.
Thankfully, it doesn't happen much at Brizzel.
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IMHO it's a 'smart arse' thing to do done by people who are less smart than they realise. Do it when you are asked to
So, in summary, please don't ident until instructed. I know you're trying to help, but it's not doing any good!
Cheers
DTHP
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Squawking Ident before being asked can delay you - as I have to wait for it to stop, then get you to squawk ident again, then I can turn/climb you.
I was on a fam flight with a large operator out of LCY last month, and they thought they were helping in identing on their own, so rarely it isn't really smart arse mentality.
The passing level on first call can help though.
I was on a fam flight with a large operator out of LCY last month, and they thought they were helping in identing on their own, so rarely it isn't really smart arse mentality.
The passing level on first call can help though.
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I didn't think you bothered identifying anything anyway Mr.M, and "squawk ident" was for the benefit of the tapes!!
As for verifying Mode C, what the hell does that mean in English?
Hope you are enjoying your days off.
Luv Tinpot!
As for verifying Mode C, what the hell does that mean in English?
Hope you are enjoying your days off.
Luv Tinpot!
Avoid imitations
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As a mere pilot, I'd guess that an unverified mode C is one where a controller sees an altitude annotation on his screen but hasn't spoken to the pilot to confirm he is actually at that altitude. Therefore the mode C can't be relied on at that stage.
A verified mode C is where the altitude HAS been cross-checked & confirmed.
Alan M will correct me where necessary, I know
A verified mode C is where the altitude HAS been cross-checked & confirmed.
Alan M will correct me where necessary, I know
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Standard,
Not in the last 3years have I had a request from BRS for an Ident. Must have missed it while ordering the cheese board.
Keep up the excellent work though!
Ps When is Ground going to open???????
Not in the last 3years have I had a request from BRS for an Ident. Must have missed it while ordering the cheese board.
Keep up the excellent work though!
Ps When is Ground going to open???????
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ShyT is correct as always. Gold star and a direct Brent-Batt with no delay to you old chap!!!
Don't worry about Tinpot Radio.... He does it properly some times
Don't worry about Tinpot Radio.... He does it properly some times
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FourTrails
As a BFS man myself....I don't care if you push the button....or I ask you to do it.....either way I've issued an outbound clearance and if you pop up on the radar off the correct end.....well its done and dusted in my book.....
However.......some ATCOs who play exactly by the rules will be horrified at my lack of prof
.As it (Scottish accent here for all those who work at BFS) 'says in the book' I should ask for the ident and observe the pilot identing.......
Today I had the senario 1 off City, 1 off me and one transfered to Scottish...all identing at the same time....
What (IMHO) feel is more important is the level check on climb-out to verify Mode C and the CLEARED LEVEL, which is vitally more important.
SW
p.s. its worth watching the video of the Midland and Shuttle on the wrong squawks....
p.p.s as Tinpot Radio says I may ask you for ident again if
1. SRG are behind me
2. My LCE is plugged in
ppps. Just wondering if you were downwind today at 2.4A or 2.5A
As a BFS man myself....I don't care if you push the button....or I ask you to do it.....either way I've issued an outbound clearance and if you pop up on the radar off the correct end.....well its done and dusted in my book.....
However.......some ATCOs who play exactly by the rules will be horrified at my lack of prof
.As it (Scottish accent here for all those who work at BFS) 'says in the book' I should ask for the ident and observe the pilot identing.......Today I had the senario 1 off City, 1 off me and one transfered to Scottish...all identing at the same time....
What (IMHO) feel is more important is the level check on climb-out to verify Mode C and the CLEARED LEVEL, which is vitally more important.
SW
p.s. its worth watching the video of the Midland and Shuttle on the wrong squawks....
p.p.s as Tinpot Radio says I may ask you for ident again if
1. SRG are behind me
2. My LCE is plugged in
ppps. Just wondering if you were downwind today at 2.4A or 2.5A
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Daft question, 'cos i'm a little out of practise and don't have a CAP 493 to hand, but why do controllers need to observe an ident? Surely observance of a pre-assigned 4 dig code is normally good enough, especially on a departing aircraft following a SID?
I stand by to be corrected.
I stand by to be corrected.
Last edited by Whipping Boy's SATCO; 25th Apr 2005 at 17:23.
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Doesn't that method have to be within a mile of getting off the deck.
I am also standing by to be corrected
As a side, when the lows and slows (but still commercial) are joining the airway they often give their life story. Their clearance has already been given to them by the last agency. All we need (and usually want) is what level they are (or climbing to) and what point they're heading to.
It's amazing how many times when you're short of RT time a life story crops up from the joiner!
Rant over
CF
I am also standing by to be corrected
As a side, when the lows and slows (but still commercial) are joining the airway they often give their life story. Their clearance has already been given to them by the last agency. All we need (and usually want) is what level they are (or climbing to) and what point they're heading to.
It's amazing how many times when you're short of RT time a life story crops up from the joiner!
Rant over
CF
Surely observance of a pre-assigned 4 dig code is normally good enough,
Many years ago, in the UK, it was routine to instruct departing aircraft to 'IDENT', in order to trigger the code/call sign conversion.
Doesn't that method have to be within a mile of getting off the deck.
Last edited by spekesoftly; 25th Apr 2005 at 14:34.